Author Topic: McDonald - Urquhart & Glenmoriston  (Read 34117 times)

Offline Chris_RiverRaisin

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Re: McDonald - Urquhart & Glenmoriston
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 04 September 18 15:27 BST (UK) »
To pick up where I left off:

...the Grants of Glenmoriston and their McDonell/McDonald, Cameron, Ferguson, Chisholm and other friends, kin and relations from Glenmoriston were one of the most prominent groups of Loyalist settlers along the River Raisin in early eastern Ontario.

In the churchyard of St. Andrew's United in Williamstown the graves of Roderick McDonell (died 1809), Donald McDonell and others clearly indicate they were born in Glenmoriston, which they also spelled 'Glenmorrison'.

 would be grateful for any birth, baptismal, death or marriage records available from Glenmoriston covering the period 1700-1775.

Offline Peter MacDonald

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Re: McDonald - Urquhart & Glenmoriston
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 19 September 18 01:55 BST (UK) »
Hi Anndra,
I was fascinated by your comment about how you've timelined McDonalds from U&G. This conversation seems to focus on the McDonalds from the Invermoriston area. Mine are from Lewiston/Drumnadrochit (just up the Loch). I haven't found any connections between the two groups - yet. I suppose they're all related back there somewhere. Would be interested in seeing your timeline chart. Is it available online? I'm at a brick wall in Lewiston and looking for any possible leads/hints.
Stephen MacDonald, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, bigmac1x at sympatico dot ca

Hello Stephen,

Just wondering where and when your MacDonald line settled in Canada?


Peter MacDonald (Canada)

Offline Skoosh

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Re: McDonald - Urquhart & Glenmoriston
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 19 September 18 11:12 BST (UK) »
Quite astonishing the Loyalist sympathies of these folk when one considers the atrocities committed on their forefathers back in Scotland.

Skoosh.

Offline Peter MacDonald

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Re: McDonald - Urquhart & Glenmoriston
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 20 September 18 01:15 BST (UK) »
Quite astonishing the Loyalist sympathies of these folk when one considers the atrocities committed on their forefathers back in Scotland.

Skoosh.

Religious issues for Catholics played a piece in this for Scottish Catholics:

http://www.cchahistory.ca/journal/CCHA1981/McGivern.html





Offline Skoosh

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Re: McDonald - Urquhart & Glenmoriston
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 20 September 18 09:47 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that explanation Peter. The sons/grandsons of forfeit clan chiefs ingratiated themselves with the government by raising regiments from their former lands to fight the French. No sooner than they had these lands restored (to much celebration), they set about replacing their people with sheep, as per MacDonald of Boisdale in your interesting piece!

Bests,
Skoosh.

Offline Peter MacDonald

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Re: McDonald - Urquhart & Glenmoriston
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 30 September 18 20:56 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that explanation Peter. The sons/grandsons of forfeit clan chiefs ingratiated themselves with the government by raising regiments from their former lands to fight the French. No sooner than they had these lands restored (to much celebration), they set about replacing their people with sheep, as per MacDonald of Boisdale in your interesting piece!

Bests,
Skoosh.

Hello Skoosh,

I also don't fully understand the Loyalist sympathies, however I would imagine for many military service was one of the few ways to survive at the time for many.  Further, to receive free lands in Canada, Highlanders/Scots would be required to swear an oath to the crown to receive granted land.  I believe much of the talk pertaining to the Loyalist sympathies of the Highlanders/Scots is more of a romance of the period through their descendants.  Just my opinion though.

All the best,

Peter

Offline Chris_RiverRaisin

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Re: McDonald - Urquhart & Glenmoriston
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 30 September 18 22:15 BST (UK) »
Peter and Skoosh,

Land was certainly an important part of the Highlander Loyalist calculation. But this factor does not fully explain why they would leave lots they had partially cleared in New York province in order to fight for the crown that had, after all, defeated them in 1746, ravaged their property, deprived them of language, clothing and traditions.

Some did stay behind in America, even in the frontier counties of New York. Many more joined the American side in North Carolina and elsewhere. But most of the Highlanders in Tryon, Charlotte and Delaware Counties joined the Loyalist cause for three reasons, in my view:

- loyalty to traditional leaders, in this case the tacksmen who had organized their emigration in 1773-75, as well as Sir William and Sir John Johnson themselves, who were their landlords, benefactors and unquestioned community leaders;

- loyalty to the crown, which was of course an article of faith for Jacobites, and after 1760 came to be identified with the 'Patriot King' George III, who had relaxed some of the post-Culloden restrictions and made the Earl of Bute, a Tory Scot, his first minister; and

- fear of repression, intolerance and abuse at the hands of the revolutionaries whom the Highlanders in New York identified first and foremost with New England Puritans who were hostile to their religion (mainly Catholic), homeland (North Britain) and politics (clan-based, honour-bound Jacobite and Tory).

Best regards,

Chris

Offline kfrye173

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Re: McDonald - Urquhart & Glenmoriston
« Reply #34 on: Friday 17 January 20 20:04 GMT (UK) »
Hello to Chris_River Raisen,

Donald Grant was my 5th GGF and lived on the U.E.L. land 13th lot of 2nd concession SBRR, a few of us have been studying his family for about 8 years now and find he is:  Donald Grant Senior b1744-d1806 Craskie, Weaver, came in 1773 on the Pearl to Sir John Johnson's land in NY, KRRNY fought under Alex McD's unit....depending on the records married either Marg or Nancy McD (or both) and we know his Y DNA goes to the Chiefly line. 

A couple of us have done pretty deep dives into the literature re: who his father might be, but no definitive records appear to exist.  From the work of Peter Grant NZ we know there are some documented members of the Craskie line that appear in official documents, but what does become obvious is how much we don't know.  The following is to relay what we have found out, not to rebut anything in particular.

A lot of people (both dead and alive) identify John/John Roy Grant Craskie b1707 as DG 1744's father.  I have contacted all of them (if alive, sure i'd like to talk to the dead, but such is not the case) None of them have any real records or documentation that would cement this relationship. 

Various Clan Grant sites have a mishmash of possible trees, mostly based off of " The Ancestors and Descendants of Major Alpin".  Other inputs from John E. Grant, Francis Ross McDonald, Evelyn Goulet, Father John and others through time, trying to piece this family together.  It is obvious that they are basing their trees on prior attempts, but none of them state they have any documentation or records to buttress their opinions and many are gracious to be corrected, if something were to rise up from the graves.

re: John/John Roy Craskie b1707, it is unknown who his parents are and actually somewhat indeterminate as to his real relation to Craskie.  There were a number of John Grant prisoners taken post-Culloden, many from Glenmorriston.  In the prisoner records John Craskie Farmer was age 40 when taken prisoner in 1746 yielding b1706, some may have confused his DOB as age 40 at the year of Transport to Barbados in 1747, thus 1707. 

There was also a John Roy Grant Aberdeen Wheelwright, he didn't get transported, but that was the only John Roy Grant in the prisoner record that I think people may have conflated John b1706 with.  Also, in the Prisoner listing there are plenty of other Grants listed as "There" in Craskie probably hiding there after the battle  So plenty of ???s as to who were really living there before Culloden, let alone in the "OF Craskie" lineage.

When we look at the documented people associated with Craskie, things become more sketchy and a number of possible father lineages begin to emerge.  See attached tree.

In records, the wadset seems to pass from Patrick "the elder" b1671 to his eldest son Alexander "the Younger" b1710.  we also know Alex b1710 had a younger brother Patrick bca 1712-15.  This we believe to be Patrick "Black Peter" "of Craskie" (who never married and some have mistaken trees that actually need to go to another Patrick/Peter from this area, born a bit later.  There is also an outside chance that Black Peter did father a child (but not married) on the Isle of Skye after he returned from the siege of Quebec).

Alex died in 1743 and Patrick probably inherited the rights to the wadset at that point.

So now we have to exclude John/John Roy b1706/7 from THIS Craskie lineage as he would have been the eldest child and probable holder of the wadset not Alex b1710.

Alex's children were known up until his death in 1743 and it is certainly possible he could have fathered Donald b1744, but there is no known record of that.

This Alex's father Pat b1671 had a brother John of Craskie (at least according to one often cited source) that appeared to have fathered Isobel who married Patrick Grant 8th of Glenmorriston.  There is some thought that this John is actually Pat b1671, as there are no further documented references to him.

Assuming John lived, we have at least two brothers "of Craskie" that had known offspring and there may have been more undocumented possible progenitors for John b1706/7 Craskie....Let alone any number of unknown, undocumented progenitors that could have fathered Donald b1744 Craskie Weaver of 13/2 South Branch River Raisen. 

Donald b1744's male children's names are Duncan, Lewis, Archibald and Donald.  No Patrick, Alexander or John  tip-of-the-hat to the previous generation is seen, so he may have descended from another part of the Grant's of Glenmorriston tree and listed Craskie in the records as the last place he lived (as was also a custom at the time). 

Would love to hear anyone else's thoughts on this, as I am tiring of listening to myself, LOL.

     

Offline DonM

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Re: McDonald - Urquhart & Glenmoriston
« Reply #35 on: Friday 17 January 20 21:29 GMT (UK) »
Here is a bit of history on the UEL's and a list of all the UEL's in the Appendix.

http://www.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.02561/6?r=0&s=1

Don
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