Ramsays of Fife

[lyraea]

Hi All

OK - this may seem a litle strange but...   My friend who's name is Cassie June Ramsay died of cancer a couple of years ago.   We were very close and a year or so before she died she gave me what she had of of her family tree information and asked me to research it for her.    I would like to get as much information - not just names, places and dates, but also stories, pictures etc so I can put together something for her children.   

I have been slowly doing it in between doing my own FH and work etc however I have have not got very far really.   Her father was Albert Ramsay born in Perthshire in 1904.   Grandfather William Dickie Ramsay b 1869, Perthshire, Ggrandfather James Ramsay b 1836 in Fife, GGgrandfather David Skinner Ramsay b 1816 in Fife and GGGfather is James with wife Jean or Jane Skinner although I don't have any dates for these two.    Can't get back further that this.   The info from Scotland has come from Scotlands people but now I am stuck.   I have James (b1836) wife Eliza Dickie and her parents - William Dickie and Janet Guthrie but no dates for them and nothing back beyond them.

William Dickie Ramsay and his wife Sarah McEwan moved to New Zealand sometime between 1901 and 1910.   I am currently busy looking up these records.

Her mother was Cassie Ballard Best but I will follow this through elsewhere as this family come from England - so far.

Is there anyone who can help me with this information as I would appreciate any help I can get.   

Thanks
Sandra

[AMBLY]

Hi Sandra

How lovely that you are doing this for your dear friend and her children!

SKINNER and RAMSAY are common names in Fife. 

My first thought was to say:
So that we can help best, and to avoid us looking for things you already have - can you let us know more specifically:

1) What specific places in Perthshire and Fife were they found in? Even down to farm names, house names, streets.
2) What census do you have? or need?
3) Have you, or do you want to, follow the siblings forward, of each RAMSAY male (always hoping for a living descendant!)
4) What more do you know/need to know about David Skinner RAMSAY
5) Do you have their death records, know where they are buried (looking for headstones)
6) What occupations did these men follow?

The SCT-FIFE mailing list is very active, and has a decent amount of hits on SKINNER and  RAMSAY,  including some of 'your' family. Some SCT-FIFE list subscribees may also be on Rootschat forum but there may well be connected people who only subscribe to the list. For example these two (the 2nd one gives you an approx date for Jane/Jean SKINNER):

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-FIFE/2001-03/0983848971
1871 Deaths, District of Dysart, County of Fife : p.61, No. 183
On 12 Dec 1871 at Gallatown, Dysart, David Skinner RAMSAY, Carter, (marr to Helen Low), 54 yrs, s/of James Ramsay, Linen Weaver & Jean, m.s. Skinner (both dec), of Typhoid Fever, cert. Infmt: Elizabeth Ramsay, daughter, present.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-FIFE/2001-03/0984277243
David Skinner Ramsay : his mother, Jean Skinner, (widow of James
Ramsay, feuar & weaver) was aged 64 when buried 27 Oct 1845, S/Tn (Dyst
burials) - so Jean was b. c. 1781. No idea who her parents were

You can search the lists here:
http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/

I do know that the Rootschatter NorrieG is a wonderful stalwart of SCT-FIFE, and has masses of data on cemteries, headstones, inscriptions and photographs from all over Fife. He regularly posts up information on the list  by way of an "index" of names on what he has and offers to provide full details to interested researchers - so I'm sure he would not mind your contacting him via Rootschat to see what he may hold on your families.

Cheers 
AMBLY

[MonicaL]

Hi Sandra and Ambly

Sounds like you are doing a sterling job in memory of your friend, Sandra

Just going by the names of James Ramsay and Jane Skinner's children, following their marriage/banns on 19 DEC 1812 Dysart:

1. JANET AITKEN RAMSAY Birth: 10 FEB 1815/ Christening: 20 FEB 1815 Dysart
2. DAVID SKINNER RAMSAY   Birth: 12 APR 1817/ Christening: 20 APR 1817 Dysart
3. JAS. RAMSAY Birth: 15 MAR 1819/ Christening: 01 JUN 1819 Dysart
4. BETSY RAMSAY Birth: 08 OCT 1823/ Christening: 08 OCT 1823 Dysart, Fife, Scotland

Following Scottish naming pattern, you would think this would be her birth and parents:

JEAN SKINNER Birth: 21 DEC 1780/ Christening on 24 JAN 1781 Kettle, Fife
Parents:DAVID SKINNER and JANET AIKEN

Monica 

[MonicaL]

From the info posted by Ambly re the possible death of Jane Skinner in 1845, this looks a likely entry for her in 1841 with daughter Betsy:

Jane Ramsay 55, yarn winder
Betsy Ramsay 15, Linen H L W (hand loom weaver)

Address:St Clairtown, Dysart

Monica

[lyraea]

Hi Ambly and Monica

If this is the kind of response I am going to get I will be overwhelmed - thankyou both so much.

Ambly - in answer to your questions.

) What specific places in Perthshire and Fife were they found in? Even down to farm names, house names, streets.       -  Abernethy is the place I have in Perthshire and in Fife it is Strathmiglo, Kettle & Gallatown.   I don't have any streets and considering I did get some info from the census I'm not sure why not.    I will definitely go back and re check the little info I have to ensure that I have all of it and not just some of it - also I will have to check that I recorded all my sources.   I get so excited sometimes getting all the family info that I forget to do the sources bit and find I have gaps so I will have to go back and check those as well unfortunately.
2) What census do you have? or need?  Apart from what I got from June everything is from Scotlands People so I do have access to the census there but can't seem to find much.  Obviously I need to look more closely.
3) Have you, or do you want to, follow the siblings forward, of each RAMSAY male (always hoping for a living descendant!)   Yes I do please.
4) What more do you know/need to know about David Skinner RAMSAY    - I have his CHR, Death and his occupation in 1851,61 & 71 and parent names   - so everything else really.  I suppose along with the general things like this I'm looking for stories and photos (where possible). 
5) Do you have their death records, know where they are buried (looking for headstones)  - only what is in Scotlands People
6) What occupations did these men follow?  Davids occupations are listed as Miller, grain Merchant & Carter.   His father, as per your informative snippet was a Linen Weaver and his son from what can find was a joiner.

I did glean what I could from SP but Given what you have below I obviously didn't pick up on who belonged to who because I never saw those below.

I will go to the list site you mentioned and have a look as it does sound like a great source of information.    Also can you tell me how I contact  NorrieG through Rootschat.    Or are you talking about contacting him from the List site?    Sorry not meaning to be vague but while I have put in a few posts and answers I really haven't done that much here. 

Monica
Yes - from the occupations, ages etc it certainy does look like Jane and her daughter.   Since I don't yet (didn't) have any siblings for David S Ramsay I wouldn't have put these together conclusively.   And, of course I had no details for James and Jane at all except their names - until the info from Ambly below. 

I would say that would definitely be her parents - have to be wouldn't they.    Also I have 7 children for David S and Helen Low and one of them I have as Peter Rutherford Ramsay who married a Maggie Laing.   I wonder where the Rutherford comes from and interestingly he is the only child I have a middle name for although the others probably do.

I have to confess that this info from you both has given me a renewed hope that I will be able to go a lot further with this.    I had hoped to have it for the kids this Christmas but that is not going to happen and now that I have year to get together a lot more it's just great!!

Also they have McEwens and Kinmond - a name I had never heard of until I started this research and I only have the daughters marriage in Perth to go on when it comes to where these two families may be.   But I will get to them later.

So lots of fun ahead and thanks again to you both for your help and I look am really looking forward to finding out about these families.    (this smiley is the closest I could get to a really really happy face)

Sandra 

[MonicaL]

Hi Sandra

The 'NorrieG' that Ambly referred to is here on RootsChat. I've put a link to a recent posting www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,333729.0.html  If you go to the post, simply click on NorrieG's name on the left and you will go through to his profile where at the bottom you will see the option to send a PM.

Doesn't sound like you have the 1841 census for David and family:

David Ramsey 20
Ellen Low 20
James Ramsay 4
David Ramsey 2
Eliz Ramsey 3 Months

Address: Pityomie, Strathmiglo

Monica 

Added: I would add the link to your post here for background.

[lyraea]

Hi Monica

You are right - I didn't have that census.  Also thanks for the info re NorrisG.  I will contact him as you suggested.

Thanks again
Sandra

[MonicaL]

Sandra

If I can suggest, when you go through your family documentation that you have gathered so far, identify your gaps. We can all then focus on trying to find them with you.

Just looking at the names of David and Helen's children for any further clues - I make it eight rather than seven children for them    Following their banns/marriage on 15 MAY 1836 Collessie, Fife/ 30 MAY 1836 Strathmiglo, Fife we have:

1. James Ramsay Birth: 04 OCT 1836 Strathmiglo, Fife
2. David Ramsay Birth: 03 DEC 1838 Strathmiglo, Fife
3. Elizabeth Ramsay Birth: 11 MAR 1841 Strathmiglo, Fife
4. Jean Skinner Ramsay Birth: 26 NOV 1843 Strathmiglo, Fife
5. William Ramsay  Birth: 30 NOV 1846 Leslie, Fife
6. Helen Ramsay  Birth: 16 JAN 1852 Abernethy, Perth
7. John Ramsay  Birth: 18 MAY 1854 Abernethy, Perth
8. Peter Rutherford Ramsay  Birth: 14 DEC 1860 Abernethy, Perth - you get the feeling that Peter was the unexpected last baby!

And for the censuses we have:

1841: Pityomie, Strathmiglo, Fife - Agricultural Labourer
1851: Fargs Mill, Abernethy, Perthshire - Miller Master-one Man
1861: Glenfoot, Abernethy, Perthshire - Grain Agent
1871: Kirky Road, Dysart, Fife - Carter

For 1881 and Helen now widowed:

Helen Ramsay 67, Outdoor Worker, Fifeshire, Kettle
Elisebeth Ramsay 40, factory worker, b. Fifeshire, Strathmiglo
Peter Ramsay 20, carter, b. Perthshire, Abernethy
James Ramsay 15, Grandson, Labourer Linoluem Factory, b. Dysart (from IGI, mother looks to be Elizabeth above)
Robina Ramsay 8, Granddaughter, b. Dysart (as with James, Elizabeth shows as mother).

Address: 298 Rosslyn St, Dysart, Fife

There is a death for a 71 year old Helen Ramsay/Low showing in 1887 in Markinch which will confirm her parents' names. I would guess, that given the names she used for children and also how consistent she was about her age and birth place, this is a likely birth entry for her from IGI:

HELEN LOW  Birth: 05 DEC 1814/ Christening: 05 JAN 1815 Kettle, Fife, Scotland
Parents:JAMES LOW and ELSPET ROBERTSON (Elspet(h) being a variant for Elizabeth).

Lots of children show for these parents, but maybe worthwhile leaving the Low family aside for a moment as you work through on the Ramsays 

Monica

[MonicaL]

Following down your line to James, eldest son of David and Helen, b. 1836 in Strathmiglo. I'm sure you may have some of this already but it helps identify any gaps you may have. We have him at home with his parents and family up to 1851. He then married Eliza Dickie on 17 AUG 1857 in Forgandenny, Perth. From IGI births (up to 1875 for Scotland), there shows:

1. JANET GUTHRIE RAMSAY  Birth: 20 AUG 1859 Abernethy, Perth
2. HELEN RAMSAY  Birth: 14 MAY 1861 Arngask, Fife
3. JAMES RAMSAY Birth: 05 JUL 1863 Abernethy, Perth
4. WILLIAM RAMSAY  Birth: 21 JUN 1868 Abernethy, Perth
5. DAVID SKINNER RAMSAY Birth: 12 JUN 1870 Perth, Perth
6. ANN DICKIE RAMSAY Birth: 07 APR 1872 Perth, Perth

In the censuses, they show at:

1861: Duncrievie Village (farm House), Arngask, Kinross
1871: 1 Bachis Tennd, Perth Burgh
1881: 51 So. Methven St, Perth East Church
1891: 52 Longcauseway, Perth East Church

I think Eliza Dickie may have died in 1895, there is a likely death for her in Perth that year. Can't see James husband in 1901, so wonder if he may have died too?

Let us know what you have re census info for this generation and if you have any gaps we can get transcriptions for those years or at least, you know where to look for the original image on SP.

Sandra, I think I'll stop here for now and give you time to go through everything. We can start to look for extended lines (Guthrie/Dickie and Low/Robertson etc.) at a later point when you are ready.

Monica