Robert Duncan - abt 1840 Scoonie Fife

[velly]

Hello
I am looking for my g-g-gdfthr Robert Duncan.  His marriage record puts his birth year at about 1843 and his parents as Thomas Duncan (blacksmith) and Ann Munroe.  I have searched FamilySearch and there was a record for Robert Duncan - born in 1840 Leven, Scoonie, Fife, Scotland.  Parents Thomas Duncan and Ann Munro.  In the message section of the record it states "Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church.  No additional information is available.  Ancestral file may list the same family and the submitter."I'm thinking that although there is a discrepancy with the date, this has to be him.  I then went onto Scotland's People to see if I could order the record.  And they have no record of this birth. 

There was also a birth date and place for Thomas Duncan (1812 Strathmiglo, Fife, Scotland) and a marriage date and place for Thomas Duncan and Ann Munro (20 Jul 1834, Kinross, Kinross, Scotland).  Again, I couldn't find either of these on Scotland's People.  There was also the same message in the record.

I am quite new to this and was wondering if this is common?  I think that the FamilySearch info is almost certainly my Robert Duncan.  Can anyone give me any clues to how I establish this further and get copies of the records?

Thanks for any help. 

[tootsiepie]

The 1834 marriage/banns of Thomas  Duncan and a Munro in Kinross,Kinross is on S.P.  No credits to check it, but I think it's yours.

However I don't see a birth for Robert to these parents as yet.

Do you see, though, that the birth iof Robert is only approximated to 1840, no month or date, so I suspect the info has come from M.I's or census etc.

Not all children were entered into Parish Records for a variety of reasons, also possible that the births/christenings were not well kept. i.e. the minister/clerk forgot to enter them.

[MonicaL]

Hi Velly

This looks to be Robert's 1851 entry with Thomas father maybe widowed by now (?):

Thomas Duncan 39, blacksmith, b. Strathmiglo, Fife
Jean Duncan 15, b. Kinross, Kinross
David Duncan 13, b. Perth, Perth
Robert Duncan 11, Scoonie, Perth
Maryann Duncan 7, b. Kinonl, Perth
Thomas Duncan 5, b. Kinross, Kinross

Address: Mouse Wynd, Cupar, Fife

As you can see from the children's birth places, the family seem to have moved around and may explain why some of the children's births appear on the OPRs and some do not:

From IGI, actual extract from the OPRs:

1. JEAN MCRITCHIE DUNCAN Birth: 08 APR 1835/ Christening: 31 MAY 1835 Kinross, Kinross, Scotland
2. THOMAS DUNCAN Birth: 30 MAR 1846/ Christening: 12 APR 1846 Kinross, Kinross, Scotland

And the member submitted entries (probably taken from a census entry:

1. David Duncan  Birth: 1838 Perth, Perth, Scotland
2. Robert Duncan Birth: 1840 Leven, Scoonie, Fife, Scotland
3. Mary Ann Duncan Birth: 1844 Kinnoul, Perth, Scotland

As Tootsiepie said, the marriage/banns for Thomas and mother Ann show on 20 JUL 1834 in Kinross, Kinross, actual extract from the OPRs. The entry is showing on SP, just watch the spelling of mother Ann's name as it is registered as ANNE. SP is very particular on spelling  so when searching for Ann, worthwhile always searching as Ann*.

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Given the middle name of what looks like first born daughter to Thomas and Ann, this might be a possibility for Ann's birth details:

ANN MONRO  Birth: 04 JUL 1801/Christening:05 JUL 1801 Kinross, Kinross
Parents:ROBT. MONRO and JEAN MCRITCHIE

Monica

[velly]

Thank you so much for your help.  That is really great.  I'll go back to SP now with the knowledge that it's a very specific speller!!

So if there is no OPR for a birth and we have Robert Duncan from census records - is this the best we can hope to establish his birth?

[MonicaL]

Velly, the honest answer re Robert's birth entry is...I don't know  Certainly the only births showing for siblings are those born in Kinross, nothing on the births from Perth on the OPRs at Scotlands People.

One thing on Robert's birth place, he shows as Scoonie in Perth. Have a look at this old post www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,151856.0.html, reply No. 8 for clarification on the place name.

Monica 

[velly]

Thank you Monica.  The info on Scoonie was very worthwhile.  It's hard to get your head around the places etc.  I think I will try and find Robert Duncan's death cert. for Australia.  Family lore says that he wore a kilt every day of his life!  Sounds like an interesting character...

[velly]

Hi Monica,

Can I just get your opinion on one other thing?? As you say, given Thomas and Ann's first born daughter's name, the record for Ann Monro in 1801 looks very promising.  Would it be unusual for her to be 10 or 11 years the senior of her husband?  And should I be able to find a death/burial record for her prior to 1851 census? 

Thanks so much 

Velly

[MonicaL]

It's hard being definitive isn't it when you are simply putting together information. Certainly it would seem that Ann appears to be older than Thomas. In respect of was it unusual, probably no more than today. It did occur to me that perhaps the birth entry we have for Ann may have been for an older sister who died and then the name was reused (common practice in those times for important family first names) but looking at the other children showing for parents, can't see a birth for a second Ann:

1. MARY MONRO Christening: 03 AUG 1794 Kinross, Kinross
2. HECTOR MONRO Christening: 09 JUL 1797 Kinross, Kinross
3. JAMES MONRO Christening: 14 JUL 1799 Kinross, Kinross
4. ANN MONRO Christening: 05 JUL 1801 Kinross, Kinross
5. ROBERT MONRO  Christening: 31 MAR 1805 Kinross, Kinross
6. CHRISTIAN MONRO Christening: 04 DEC 1808 Kinross, Kinross
7. MARGARET MUNRO Christening: 21 APR 1811 Kinross, Kinross

You may be able to find an Old Parish Register death entry for her. You would have to check what is available for both Kinross and Cupar, Fife going by the movements of the family between 1846-51. There may also be MIs (monumental inscriptions) that could be checked. Bear in mind though that this is all pre official registration, and if there is an OPR entry for her death there is likely to be minimal info (no parents info for example as there would be on death certs. post 1855).

Monica