Author Topic: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.  (Read 40040 times)

Offline coombs

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 31 December 08 12:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Yes, if Annie gave birth to two illegitimate children and had no prospects of marrying the father then she would no doubt give the baby up for adoption. That is why many mothers gave up their babys for adoption if they were illegitimate and there were no prospects of her marrying. If there was, then the mother would probably keep the baby and then marry the father. Often illegitimacies can be explained because one of the parents was still married, financially hard up, away at sea etc resulting in delayed marriage plans.

She might have wanted to break free from the privileged lifestyle and hoped to make it on her own, ie independent.

Ben
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline onefortheroad

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 31 December 08 13:54 GMT (UK) »
Quite so, Ben. I can't wait for the 1911 census to be released  -  goodness knows what she'll have been upto by then !

David.
Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires ?).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.

Offline Suffolk Mawther

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 31 December 08 22:45 GMT (UK) »
Our Draper's apprentices were from a good background, it seems that you were taken on by a good company who put you through the Drapers apprenticeship and often provided accommodation whilst you were training.

One of our chaps who was apprenticed to the original Bon Marche store in Brixton London and was in a hostel in Lambeth that belonged to the store - met the assistant cashier, who was also living in the hostel.
Must have taken him home to Suffolk at some time as one of his sisters later married the Chief Cashier, same chap!

Might be worth checking with The Draper's Company
http://www.thedrapers.co.uk/ContactUs/1_Introduction.html
to check if any records held on her or on her apprenticeship

Thanks, I am now on the settee with glass poised to see in the new year with my husband whose birthday it is today  :D

Happy New Year everyone,

Pat ...
Every time I find an ancestor,
I have to find two more!

SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham - all link to  Framlingham 
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally Framlingham/Parham)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert & Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith LDN - Fulker
LDN/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
 
GGfather Michael Wilson born Cork, lived Fulham London - moved to Boston USA 1889, what happened next?

Offline coombs

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 31 December 08 23:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Still 40 minutes to go until 2009. lets hope that the new year knocks down many brickwalls.

Ben
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain


Offline onefortheroad

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 01 January 09 14:40 GMT (UK) »
Happy New Year, Pat and all that plus Happy Birthday, Pat's hubby.

That's a very interesting insight into the situation, Pat. You've given the story a new twist ;  maybe Annie was not the flighty piece of my imagination.

I take it then that the accomodation provided with an apprenticeship/training of this kind would have been acceptable to a young lady of privilege and not the hovel I had envisaged. Definitely alters my preconceived notion that she had been sent away as 'a last resort' or even, at worst, disowned and ended up at no.6 Wesgate St. out of desparation.

You'll have gathered that, over the years, I have formed in my mind a picture of my GtGrandmother that she may not have deserved. Sorry Annie !

Anyway, some on-site research this summer and then all I have to do is to find out why she had two children out of wedlock in 95 and 98.
There I go again - prejudging....

Thanks again, Pat
 Regards, David.

ps;  The link is very welcome. I'll be contacting them after the weekend.
Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires ?).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 01 January 09 20:56 GMT (UK) »
Well David, a possible reason for the illegitimate children was that poor Annie just fell in love with the wrong bloke (or blokes) who promised her the world and then dumped her.  Age-old story, I'm afraid -  and if she came from a comfortable background, she had probably led a rather sheltered life and was therefore easy prey.  Oh dear, there I go, pre-judging the situation.....  but whatever the truth, it makes for a very interesting story.  Hope you'll post when you find more.

Regards

Greensleeves
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Suffolk Mawther

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 01 January 09 23:25 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for the kind greetings David.

I remembered today, that as well as Albert Edward being sent away to Bon Marche in Brixton and living in their hostel in Lambeth (huge list of young men and women in the hostel on the 1881), we also had a young Suffolk man sent to train as a draper in one of the stores in Cambridge - and he met his wife there, she was from Buckinghamshire, they returned to Suffolk to live.

Strange thing is all our drapery apprentices went on to run the family blacksmith and ironmongers in Fram - although we have not yet discovered which of them actually shoed a horse!

One of them was the Census enumerator for Fram too, think it was the 1871.
So all these drapers were of 'good family'.

http://www.senseofplacesuffolk.co.uk/  might have photographs of the centre of Ipswich at the time of your searches.

I attended a meeting at the SRO about a year ago when all of the participants* in Sense of Place were talking about a re-launch of the web site and more resources would be available via the web site.  I can only think that either lack of staff or lack of finance has caused a delay in this happening.  But keep looking back at the site  :)

Pat ...

Including Suffolk Local History Council


Every time I find an ancestor,
I have to find two more!

SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham - all link to  Framlingham 
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally Framlingham/Parham)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert & Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith LDN - Fulker
LDN/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
 
GGfather Michael Wilson born Cork, lived Fulham London - moved to Boston USA 1889, what happened next?

Offline onefortheroad

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 01 January 09 23:27 GMT (UK) »
I'll certainly do that, Greensleeves. It may take a while but I will get to the bottom of it - or as near as possible.
When I was growing up, Annie wasn't a topic for conversation in our family.
In fact, I was in my twenties before I knew of her existence. My Grandmother died when I was sixteen and any questions about forebears or origins while she was alive were actively discouraged.
As a result, now in my fifties, I still have a certain sense that there was something 'naughty' about Annie. It's a gut feeling born, I fear, out of the darkness in which her existence was always cloaked.
I've posted a parish record look-up request on the Norfolk section to try and find the birth of her brother (three years her junior and again no dad).
Maybe that'll shed a little light, who knows.

But I will keep you posted as to any developments.

Thanks and kind regrads,

David.
Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires ?).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.

Offline onefortheroad

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 01 January 09 23:52 GMT (UK) »
Good evening, Pat.
You'll probably have noticed a change in the way I view Annie's life.
The word 'flippant' probably best describes my attitude to her up to press.
A quick read of my last reply to Greensleeves may explain the light in which she has been cast throughout the family ; a bit of 'nudge nudge wink wink' to say the least.
I am now determined to get to the truth and put the whispers to bed with regard to Annie's life and just maybe get to know her !

The link to the EESOP site looks promising. I'll keep an eye on that over the next few months.

Thanks again, Pat.

Kind regards,

David.
Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires ?).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.