Martha Lodewich and James Maddox

[roycymru]

Hope this information has been of some help. Going this far back when the records are incomplete and/or have limited detail is tricky.

So we can see if these records match up correctly, what children do you have attributed to James other than the John you mention from 1754. Do their birth/baptism entries mention the mother as well to help clarify parentage? What is your source for these children being linked to James?

There seems to be some mismatch somewhere that needs resolving, as the proposed first wife of James was Margaret John who he married at Llanarthney on 13 Feb 1778. However, if this is the correct James it does not tie up with the birth years of the children you have, as these start in 1754.

The will for the John Madock who died in 1807 mentions sons Thomas (assume oldest as he with Martha is left the lease and goods and chattels), John and James and stepson David Lodowick.
A précis of the will: “John Madock who died in 1807 (will written in June 1792 and proven in August 1807 (therefore assume year of death) leaves the lease of his property to his wife Matha Madock and son Thomas Madock.  He leaves his stepson David Lodowick 20 shillings and his sons John and James 20 shillings. Plus the good and Chattels to his wife Martha and son Thomas”

(Whether it is the correct Thomas or not there is Thomas son of James Madock  of “Bleine” on May 5th 1783 in the Llanarthney records. Same spelling of Madock)

Given the spelling of the surname and his wife in 1792 is Martha and stepson is David, these seem to tie up nicely with Martha being the Martha (Stephen) is from Puncheston Pembs who married a David Lodowick on 04 Oct 1784, though there seems to be no record of a Martha Lodowick marrying a James Madock (even allowing for spelling variations)

[reiversgirl]

Hallo again
The Margaret John you have was married to James Maddocks, the son of the James Maddocks in question. I have all their children on my ancestry tree.
To be honest, its so long since I first did this part of the tree that I don't remember how I got Martha Lodowick but I know that there is a connection as Edith Lodwick contacted my mother for photographs for her book and my mother's family have been connected with the modern Lodwick family. It seems however that we are not connected by blood.
It has been very frustrating trying to go back further. I think I would need the help of a professional to do so. I haven't been in a position to go to graveyards either, which might help.

[roycymru]

Hallo again
The Margaret John you have was married to James Maddocks, the son of the James Maddocks in question. I have all their children on my ancestry tree.
To be honest, its so long since I first did this part of the tree that I don't remember how I got Martha Lodowick but I know that there is a connection as Edith Lodwick contacted my mother for photographs for her book and my mother's family have been connected with the modern Lodwick family. It seems however that we are not connected by blood.
It has been very frustrating trying to go back further. I think I would need the help of a professional to do so. I haven't been in a position to go to graveyards either, which might help.

Thanks for the clarication on the James marriage to Margaret John. Therefore it looks like we have 2 missing marriages from the records for James "senior", his second to Martha Lodowick and that for his first wife, whoever she might have been.

You mention Edith Lodwick's book. What is this? Does it give some definitive lineage details for
Lodwicks?

Regards

[reiversgirl]

Hallo again
For the time being on my tree I've entered the first wife as Mam Maddox!
The book is called The Story of Carmarthen by Malcolm and Edith Lodwick. It's a long time since I looked at it but it's a general story I think.

[roycymru]

Hallo again
For the time being on my tree I've entered the first wife as Mam Maddox!
The book is called The Story of Carmarthen by Malcolm and Edith Lodwick. It's a long time since I looked at it but it's a general story I think.

Hello

Seems a sensible move for now. Have established that in his will James "senior" was living as Drawstre Ganol Llanarthney, which later became known as Trawsdre Ganol with a variation in spelling of Trawsedre ganol. This is useful as in some of the parish/census records it lists Drawsre or Drawsre Ganol as the place of residence so we can match things up.

In the will he leaves the lease to his wife Martha and son Thomas. From this I think it is reasonably safe to assume Thomas was the oldest son? (the others being John and James).

Thomas is still living at Drawstre, as Thomas Maddox, in the 1841 and 1851 census with his wife Mary and children in 1841 and just his children and others in 1851. In the 1851 census is age is given as 89 and and in his burial entry from Lanartney on 21 Feb 1852 as 88. Therefore, assuming these ages are correct, he was born around 1762-1764, which, if he is the eldest, would make the other sons born later.

However, from the information you have this doesn't seem to tie up as you have John as the eldest born 20 Aug 1754? Can I please ask what children you have attributed to James (died 1807) and their dates/years of birth and if there is any reference to Drawstre?

There is a John Maddox buried 28 Oct 1834 age 61 (therefore born around 1773), of Drawsdre Fach. Therefore I am tempted to think that this John is the more likely son of James (died 1807) rather than the one born 20 Aug 1754? You may of course may have access to family history/information that I don't have?

Regards

[reiversgirl]

Hi
It doesn't necessarily follow that the oldest son is left the farm. For example, my grandparents left their farm to the 2nd youngest son who was 13 years younger than the oldest son.
I expect that in the case of the Maddox family, John and James had married and moved on and Thomas had stayed to work on the farm. Of course, in those days, the girls in between didn't signify, however much work they did on the farm.
I have John Maddox (from the LDS Family Search listing) as being buried on 28 Oct 1834 at 81 years. Thomas Maddox (for whom I have the burial record) was buried on 21 Feb 1851 at 88 years of age.

[roycymru]

Hello again

Totally agree with what you say.  However,  I think there is a trancription error for John and definitelty for Thomas's entry in the LDS records. I have attached images to confirm this.

I can quite easily see how the transcriber thought John was 81. However, looking at other 8's and 6's on this page I am more included to think his age is 61 rather than 81 (I would be interested in what you and others who may be following this thread think). The person compiling the Llanartney burial records during this period either put big loops at the top of his 6's or didn't always complete his 8's properly. Looking at other examples of 8's and 6's on this page I am more inclined to go with the former. What do you think?

Thomas was actually buried 21 Feb 1852 (his is the first entry for 1852, which is written in the margin). This would tie up with him still being alive in Drawstre in the 1851 census (which took place on 31 Mar 1851)

Regards

[reiversgirl]

The "6" on other entries looks very definite to me. For the time being, until I can get real proof that the years are wrong, I'm leaving it as it is. I'll try to find out if anyone has the family bible or has seen the gravestones of the various people.

[roycymru]

Hello reviersgirl

Looks like you were right all along and John Madock's age at death was 81 not 61. I have found a page in the Llanarthney records which conclusivley shows the transcriber writes his 8s in this unusual fashion.

In the 1841 census someone else has pointed out that what initially looks like a James (a Farmer) and Margaret Maddore is actually James and Margaret Maddox (listed as age 85) at Dyllgoed Ganol, together with Margaret Lodwick (age 65 a pauper). The Llanarthney burial records show a Margaret Madox (age 93 of Dyllcoed Canol) buried 12 Dec 1844 and James Maddock (age 93 of Dullcoed Ganol) buried 12 June 1849 at Llanarthney, which must be the same pair.

This James (therefore born around 1756) is a possible brother of John. Do you know if this is the case and/or are you aware of any family links to Dyllgoed Ganol which is not far from Trawsdre Ganol?

Regards