Author Topic: Donaghadee lookups?  (Read 23700 times)

Online scotmum

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Re: Donaghadee lookups?
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 12 October 13 09:29 BST (UK) »
One possibility to consider.

Your 'Mrs Kelly' has a son John. Isabella writing to her and John only, could suggest Mr Kelly is deceased by the 1892 letter.

PRONI have an 1890 Will entry for a David Kelly of Skerry East. You have said David was name of your Mrs Kelly's husband. The David of the entry leaves everything to a son John. We know your David had a son John. Skerry East fits for Newton Cromellin area.

If you then look at this 1901 Census entry (again ignore it mistakenly being indexed/transcribed under Crumlin):

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Crumlin/Skerry_East/929884/

you see a John Kelly in Skerry East, with his family. This family includes a widowed mother, Mary Anne Kelly aged 71 (albeit aged 90 on 1911  census - a better age 'fit' to have the possibility of a child marrying in 1860s).

A lot of coincidences or, perhaps, your 'Mrs Kelly'?


 

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Offline elderone1

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Re: Donaghadee lookups?
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 12 October 13 17:31 BST (UK) »
My most senior David Kelly had sons John and Robert, and daughter Maria. Together with "Mrs. Kelly", they came to Newtown Crommelin in 1863. It appears they travelled with a niece, Isabella Kelly. Yes, this most senior David Kelly died 28 April 1890. At that time, son Robert was leasing a 20 acre farm, and son John and family, who were apparently looking after his ailing father, inherited the lease of that 10 acre farm. Our John Kelly family left for the USA in 1892. In the 1901 Census, the House 63 Kellys are Roman Catholic Kellys. House 51 has our remaining members of the Robert Kelly family. At that time, Robert's son David, my Grandfather, was serving an apprenticeship towards certification as a Master Blacksmith, but we do not know where. Grandfather David reappears from Fifeshire, Scotland to Newtown Crommelin in 1907 to marry Elizabeth Kennedy, and move back to Scotland until 1911 when they settle in Craigywarren for the next 6 years.
Perhaps the current best key for information on "Mrs. Kelly" lies through Mary Kelly, wife of John Stuart, who is reported living with her mother, somewhere in Skerry, at the time of the birth of her third child in 1871. The reply #12 from Mr. Hume suggests he had such information, and I hope some contact can be established.

Offline elderone1

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Re: Donaghadee lookups?
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 12 October 13 17:42 BST (UK) »
Oops....I did not "preview" my last entries. My search is for Maria (Kelly) Stuart/Stewart, not Mary Kelly. This Maria would have to be born in 1847 or earlier to have been accepted as a transfer by certification in the NPC in 1863. Her mother "Mrs. Kelly" would have been in the order of 60 years old in 1871 when Maria "resided" with her.

Online scotmum

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Re: Donaghadee lookups?
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 12 October 13 20:25 BST (UK) »
Your John and 'Mrs Kelly' were in Skerry East at some stage then, if I am reading your reply correctly. If so, are you certain the same John Kelly and family actually left in 1892 (other than mention of them preparing to do so in the letter sent to them before their intended departure)? I only ask, as I have in the past, and in a nearby area as it happens, come across a family group intending to emigrate, their farm being up for sale in the newspaper for this purpose, but who didn't go. Also, unless I have missed it (and I may well have), in the Valuation Revision books, I am not seeing any John Kelly in Skerry East being replaced by someone in the period from 1892 to 1901 (which I would have expected to see if someone had sold up and emigrated). Neither am I seeing 'two' John Kelly's there at the same time in the 20 years leading up to 1901.

Also, again in nearby area, I have come across families where different members seem to follow different religions (usually one changing for/after marriage). In the timescale, 'mixed marriages' were not as uncommon in the area as some might think.

Do you know for certain your 'Mrs Kelly' was c60yrs in 1871?

Henry Hume hasn't been active on rootschat for a year or so. However, as long as he has not changed his email address since then, he would receive notification of someone posting a reply on this thread and will hopefully check same.
"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

Don't just wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain.

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Offline elderone1

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Re: Donaghadee lookups?
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 12 October 13 21:31 BST (UK) »
Thank you for your interesting comments, ScotsMum. Actually, the descendants of John Kelly were trying to search for information on this David Kelly family through professional researchers, using the same organization that I was using to search for the same person. That John Kelly family said goodbye to family members at Coleraine train station, and left Derry/Londonderry on the ship Nestorian in 1892. We have specific original public documentation.

Research shows the arrival of the David Kelly family to Newtown Crommelin from Down in March 1863 to be the first documentation of the Kelly name in that area. Unfortunately, the two sons, Robert and John, were younger than 16 years of age in 1863, so they were not eligible or recorded as transferred members of the church. A Maria Kelly transferred with David and Mrs. Kelly. On the same date, an Isabella Kelly was transferred "after examination". After speculating that Isabella was a family member but not a daughter, my "new" cousins shared a letter written to "Cousin John and Mrs Kelly" from Hillsborough dated 29/3/92. The letter is signed as Isabella Pheniy, a last name that doesn't seem to exist in all of Irish records. The letter refers to John's children by name/nickname with appropriate age-related comments. It expresses the sorry that they were going away and would probably never meet again. It also says she was "sorry to hear of your dear loving mother's death". Seeing as Isabella was familiar with John's youngest child who was under 1 year old, it suggests that John's mother died in 1891, one year after David Kelly's death.

I visited family members in Antrim this last May, and trod the same paths my ancestors probably used. All the above information was accumulated after I returned home. As our researchers have access to virtually all public records, we are hoping to link with someone who may have private communication records of the family.
Sincerely,
 David  A. Kelly

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Re: Donaghadee lookups?
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 12 October 13 22:02 BST (UK) »
OK, this further information makes things a bit clearer now. I believe you are saying the  'Mrs Kelly' of the 1892 letter was Mrs John Kelly not, as I had previously taken it to be, Mrs David Kelly.

Now knowing that Mrs David Kelly, she being the 'Mrs Kelly' whose name you wish to discover, was dead by the 1892, I've had a quick look at the Irish Civil Index. For the 1890 David Kelly death in Ballymena District, I can see he was born c1801. Assuming his wife's death was also registered in Ballymena, there are not too many possibilities on the indexes for the period 1890 to 1892 - with apparently only 6 Kelly females having died in the area then.

Of those, some can be ruled out due to their approx birth year. The remaining are a Sarah, born c1821 died 1891 and a Mary born c1822 died 1892. Have you had either of those deaths checked at all?
"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

Don't just wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious and however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at.”  Stephen Hawking

In a world where you can be anything, be kind .

Offline elderone1

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Re: Donaghadee lookups?
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 12 October 13 23:16 BST (UK) »
Thank you again, Scotmum.
Those two names and dates would fit with other documented information. I tried to access the reference online as Irish Civil Index, but must have made incorrect search parameters, because no Sarah Kelly was discoverable. I'll try again for Mary Kelly. Mary was a popular name for family descendants!

I am waiting for the next report from my contract researcher, and hope his previous thoroughness will cover these names and dates. The letter from Isabella to cousin John & Mrs. Kelly 29/3/92 said "sorry to hear of your dear loving Mother's death", so those two dates fit between the 1890 death of David Kelly, and the departure of John & Martha to the U.S.
Sincerely,
 David A. Kelly

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Re: Donaghadee lookups?
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 12 October 13 23:27 BST (UK) »
Sarah  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FTHY-LJC

Mary  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FTCX-F2N note that this death was recorded in the 1st Qtr of 1892.
"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

Don't just wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious and however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at.”  Stephen Hawking

In a world where you can be anything, be kind .

Offline elderone1

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Re: Donaghadee lookups?
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 13 October 13 00:04 BST (UK) »
You have been most helpful, Scotmum!

Of the two individuals, my first guess would be Mary Kelly. The 1892 1st quarter death date is appropriate to have elicited the remark by Isabella "I was sorry to hear of your dear loving Mother's death" in her March 29th, 1892 letter. Also Mary was repeated many times in the family name sequence. Not so with Sarah.

Thank you,
 David A. Kelly