Who were Ellen JOEL's parents? Confused of Upton cum Chalvey

[Keith Sherwood]

Osprey, That's brilliant!
Perhaps I should be looking into Scottish connections, not Jewish ones...
Not a very exciting link this, but I did google "Makala" just now:
http://babynamesworld.parentsconnect.com/meaning_of_Makala.html
It means "set at liberty", and has Hawaiian associations.  Perhaps someone in the GRIGGS family had been there as a sailor?
keith
N.B Makala was fairly popular as a forename between 1997 and 1999, but not particularly in the 1850's in England

[johnnyboy]

John,
Congratulations on a splendid piece of detective work from - can't quite work out from where in the world you might be!
Anyway, that 1873 marriage for a Henry House JOEL and a Makala GRIGGS looks exactly the right one.  I wonder what the origin of her forename is then, might it be biblical; it doesn'r appear in my Oxford Names Companion.
I think the 1852 Dec quarter marriage between a Henry JOEL and a Martha HOUSE in the Staines Reg. district must be the correct one too for this family.
And I think that the likelihood that Martha had Henry before that marriage took place, is the best theory at the moment.

Not to go to far off topic: I am in New York City. I searched Mahalah on the Internet and found a Hebrew-English dictionary that gives these definitions of the name:

1. From Mahalath, sickness; a company of dancers; a harp
2. (disease), one of the three children of Hammoleketh the sister of Gilead. (1 Chronicles 7:18)
3. Grandson of Manasseh 1Ch 7:18.

I looked at the King James bible and found Mahalah in 1 Chronicles 7:18, but whose child he was is unclear because the name comes in a long list of descendancies.

Regards,
John 

[johnnyboy]

FreeBMD shows a Henry House born Uxbridge Mar qtr 1852, which agrees with the place of birth for the Henry given in the 1861 census.

Regards,
John 

[Keith Sherwood]

All very interesting, John, and thanks for the name research...
I think that the March quarter 1852 birth registration looks spot on now.  Interesting that when I sent away for the birth certificate for one of Ellen JOEL's sons (became THATCHER after her marriage in 1898), even though he was born in late August, his parents took the whole 6 weeks to register the birth, which then appeared in the December quarter.
What I'm saying is, can't discount the fact that Henry HOUSE might actually have been born late in 1851, with his birth registered early in 1852.
Things getting considerably clearer, though,
keith

[johnnyboy]

Keith: I think a delay in registering Henry's birth could be a possibility. Someone having a child out of wedlock might understandably have been reluctant to register the birth (though that's looking at the issue from a Victorian's perspective).

Earlier in the thread there was some discussion of Jewish naming patterns. What I've learned from my Jewish friends is that families might name a child for someone but would chose a name that only began with the first letter of the namesake's name. I mention that because I was wondering if Martha House might not have had Jewish antecedents. How else to account for her familiarity with obscure names from the First Book of Chronicles?

Regards,
John 

[Keith Sherwood]

John,
Many thanks again for all that...
I think I might try and trace back Martha HOUSE's family and see what I come up with.
keith
p.s. Perhaps I ought to look into Makala GRIGGS' family too, while I'm at it.  I also thought that JOEL might have been a Jewish name before I began this thread...

[johnnyboy]

Keith: My last reply was logical, but my command of the facts was faulty. When I mentioned what I knew of Jewish traditions in naming a child, I had in the back of my mind that Martha House might have had Jewish forebears because Henry Joel's wife was named Mahalah. But Martha House Joel is related to Mahalah Griggs only by marriage (mother in law). Martha had nothing to do with Mahalah's naming. Ergo you can open the window and throw out my last reply.

One thing: we have to keep in mind that England in the 1830s, 1840s, 1850s was quite religious in some respects, and Biblical names were commonly given to Christian children.

I think I give up for today.

Regards,
John 

[Keith Sherwood]

John,
But you've been a huge help to me - and I need to keep re-reading the thread myself, as in fact that marriage you found for 1873 was for a Mahalah, not a Makala, and I've probably been barking up slightly the wrong tree when looking for definitions of forenames...
Anyway, as you say, probably enough on this topic for today.  Think I'll send the thread to the gentleman who started this all off by wanting to know more about his grandmother Ellen JOEL, and see what comments he has to make - perhaps some remembered family tales that might help.
keith

[Bruce42]

Sorry, this is not really a reply but the only Chat that I found discussing the House surname.

One of the most frustrating things is trying to research such a surname that is a usual English word in such common use.

Does anyone have any good ideas for researching ancestors with such a name on the Internet?

Many thanks.....