Author Topic: Help reading great-granny's handwriting please  (Read 10166 times)

Offline Gadget

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Re: Help reading great-granny's handwriting please
« Reply #18 on: Monday 19 January 09 22:00 GMT (UK) »
Oh well done, Jennifer  :D

It all ties in.  It looks  as if  the Dir(ector) Gen(eral) of Ord(inance) in India (1920) and the Reginald Prendergast, Indian Ordinance (1928) might be a good link as well  :)


Gadget 
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Offline JAP

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Re: Help reading great-granny's handwriting please
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 20 January 09 00:08 GMT (UK) »
We seem to have come a long way from JustinL's original query which was only to decipher the middle name of Reginald PRENDERGAST  :)  I wonder whether he wants to explore things further?

The very first reply, from Sylviaann, proposed Vereker; I read it that way also.

But then CharlotteCH, Gadget and Nick29 didn't agree with this so, being convinced it was Vereker, I went Googling for combinations of the names Vereker and Prendergast - there were quite a few (some with Prendergast as a given name and surname VEREKER, and some with Vereker as a given name and PRENDERGAST as a surname).  I posted a couple of these latter (first Colonel Evelyn David Vereker PRENDERGAST, and then Arthur Frederick Claude Vereker PRENDERGAST plus their connexion to General Sir Harry North Dalrymple PRENDERGAST VC of India and Burma fame).

JenB, it's absolutely great that you have finally found a record of Reginald with his middle name recorded in full - I guess any who might still have harboured doubts are now converted to Sylviaann's original interpretation  8)

I didn't specifically mention earlier what seem to be the origins of the connexion between the Vereker and the Prendergast names so will do so now for completeness - it is rather convoluted and might be of interest.

It apparently goes back to the Irish peerage, specifically the Prendergast Baronets of Gort.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prendergast_Baronets
The title died out at the death in 1760 of the second Baronet who was childless.  The Prendergast estates passed to the Baronet's nephew (son of his sister) John SMYTH who assumed the name of PRENDERGAST.

John SMYTH/PRENDERGAST could not inherit his uncle's title but he was subsequently created Baron Kiltarton of Gort.  Later he was created the 1st Viscount Gort.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscount_Gort
As it happened, John SMYTH/PRENDERGAST also died without sons to inherit his title.  But he had somehow managed to secure a special remainder such that the title would pass to his nephew, Charles VEREKER, the son of John's sister Juliana SMYTH by her marriage to Thomas VEREKER.
As can be seen from the Wiki list of holders of the Irish peerage, Viscount Gort, quite a few of them were given Prendergast as one of their given names.
The title is now held by the ninth Viscount, Foley VEREKER.

Another twist to the tale is that the sixth Viscount, John Standish Surtees Prendergast VEREKER, was created Viscount Gort in the UK Peerage in 1946.  But he too died without sons so he was the 1st and last Viscount Gort in the UK Peerage as there was no special remainder for it to pass to anyone else.  The Irish peerage passed to his brother.

Phew!
Well, that's all very interesting (or I found it so) about certain connexions between the Prendergast and Vereker names.
One has to suspect that the use of Vereker as a given name with the surname PRENDERGAST might well have connexions to the stories of the Irish Peerage - but we can't know that so, if Justin is interested in delving further into the background of Reginald Vereker PRENDERGAST, there's plenty more digging to do!  Especially his connexion (presumably there would be one) with Mabel and little Lancelot PRENDERGAST, both born Burma - fascinating find by Aniseed in the 1891 1901 where they were visitors at the school where Reginald V PRENDERGAST was boarding.

JAP
PS: A couple more snippets.
1. Our old friend Arthur Frederick Claude Vereker PRENDERGAST also appears with a Patent Application for design of improvements to a collapsible suitcase ...
2. There's a 1935 (as I recall) Divorce case involving Lancelot Claude PRENDERGAST.
3. And now a rather puzzling record.  There's a medal card for Lieut L C PRENDERGAST (with names in full as Lancelot Claude added in a different hand)!  I haven't found him elsewhere but I'm wondering whether (unless there has been some confusion) this might be the father of little Lancelot from the 1901 ...
Edited to correct a census date from 1891 to 1901

Offline Gadget

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Re: Help reading great-granny's handwriting please
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 20 January 09 00:10 GMT (UK) »
I first thought Vereker but her 'r's are very distinctive so think it's most likely Venker


Gadget

Before we get any further with you account, JAP, please note my original comment.  We have all spent time trying to find who this person is.


Gadget

PS - I am still interested in his relationship to the Levys  :)
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Offline trish251

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Re: Help reading great-granny's handwriting please
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 20 January 09 02:04 GMT (UK) »

Before we get any further with you account, JAP, please note my original comment.  We have all spent time trying to find who this person is.


Gadget


Thankyou for your account JAP - despite the convolutions it is very interesting, amazing how a seemingly simple search to verify a name can uncover so much information - My skills at interpreting old print/writing are zero, but I notice on RC the first suggestion is often the closest -  but it sometimes takes a little while to find additional evidence.

Trish

Edit: I had a browse of the Times online but could find nothing of Reginald - mention of John Standish Surtees Prendergast VEREKER - who was awarded the VC
The Times, Thursday, Nov 28, 1918; pg. 4; Issue 41959; col C  -   Seven New V.C.'S. The Guards At Canal Du Nord., Lord Gort's Bravery

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Offline JustinL

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Re: Help reading great-granny's handwriting please
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 20 January 09 09:49 GMT (UK) »
I am completely overwhelmed by all the help you have all provided. Amazing! Thank you very much indeed.

Sorry that it's taken so long to reply - there's a lot going on at home at the moment.

I imagine that Reginald was one of my grandfather's friends, probably from their school days at Merchant Taylors' in London. I shall check my gf's photo album.

Thanks again,

Justin


Offline Nick29

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Re: Help reading great-granny's handwriting please
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 20 January 09 10:48 GMT (UK) »
Well, some you win, some you lose, but I'm glad you got there in the end  :)
RIP 1949-10th January 2013

Best Wishes,  Nick.

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Offline JAP

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Re: Help reading great-granny's handwriting please
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 20 January 09 13:48 GMT (UK) »
I've had a bit more of a trundle round various records (following up on Aniseed's find of the Visitors, Mabel & Lancelot Claude, at Reginald's school).

I think now that the medal card is for "little" Lancelot (aged 2 in 1901).  I've not looked at medal cards previously and thought it was to do with WW1.  But some searching seems to indicate that they extended for more years so Lancelot could have been in his 20s.  It includes a General Service Medal with Iraq and Kurdistan clasps ...

And I found the following record which - from date and place - looks as though it is likely to be Mabel, the Visitor in 1901 (and probably mother of Justin's Reginald Vereker and of little Lancelot Claude).
Marriage, Holy Trinity Rangoon Burma (CE) Claud Moray PRENDERGAST, Superintendent of Police, to Mabel Louisa LLOYD, Sep 1889.

Then on FamilySearch, in the IGI-Asia, there is a submitted record as follows:
Claude Moray PRENDERGAST, bap 30 Sep 1866, Rangoon West Bengal, parents Charles Oloughtin Lamb PRENDERGAST and Mary Kathleen.

I mentioned earlier that there is a Mary K PRENDERGAST in the 1881 census, Wife of an Officer, with a son Donald and daughter Ethel both born in India, and a daughter May born in Burma.  So it seems likely that Mary K is probably Reginald Vereker's grandmother ...

Are there any more mentions of Vereker?  Well, as a matter of fact ...

Mary K PRENDERGAST is in the 1891 in Portsea, wife of a General in the Bengal Army, and has with her daughter Ethel (now married with married name BOWLES) and Ethel's two children, one of whom is a son Verikie C BOWLES aged 7.  A check on FreeBMD show his 1884 birth listed as Verak- Claude BOWLES; the image reads Veraker Claude BOWLES ...

So I guess all this could be explored further if anyone wishes ...  There are certainly records of Charles OLoughlin Lamb PRENDERGAST (he was born in Ireland) and Mary Katherine WHEELER around ...

JAP

Offline Aniseed

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Re: Help reading great-granny's handwriting please
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 20 January 09 14:49 GMT (UK) »
Wow, JAP, what amazing detective work! That marriage of Claud Moray Prendergast and mabel Louisa Lloyd in 1889 is just about right for them to be the parents of Reginald Vereker Prendergast born in 1893 or so. Then the find of Charles Oloughtin (could that be O'Loughlin?) Lamb Prendergast and Mary Kathleen combined with Mary K in the censuses, is very exciting. I really think you're onto the family here. Well done!

Even if Reginald Vereker isn't directly part of JustinL's family...it's been a terrific chase and I've learned a huge amount about the history Burma that I never knew before. As to whether the original handwriting said Vereker or Venker, I agree that it is very similar to the 'n' in Reginald. Could it be possible that JustinL's great grandmother asked Reginald to write out his name for her and herself misread his middle name as Venker rather than Vereker? If you search the Ancestry BMD indexes using Vereker as a forename with no surname you get many, many hits. If you do the same using Venker you get none. I know that's not proof, but it's a huge precedent for Vereker being used as a forename.

Edited to add: Gadget, that's interesting info about the India connection. I read it yesterday when I was too busy to take it in properly, I will have to mull it over later.

Offline honeypots

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Re: Help reading great-granny's handwriting please
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 09 May 10 18:05 BST (UK) »
hello

reginald vereker prendergast is a member of my family. I would  be pleased to hear from anyone who is researching him.