The Garniers of Winchester and environs

[scriv2]

Oh drat!...

Just found on IGI ....Frances Esther Garnier
 
 Death:  MAR 1861   
   
And  with a Marriage:  01 AUG 1826   Rookesbury, , Hampshire, England to George William Horton

Sorry,Terry! Incidentally, are there any censuses on ancestry that you can't find?
 
 

[chafox]

  Thanks, but I really didn't expect that Thomas's wife would also be a Frances.
We know that his father, William,'s wife was Frances.
Nell's post gives  one Frances,  dr of George Garnier, who couldn't have been William Johnson's wife,

 I'm assuming that  my William Johnson married his  Frances sometime before 1798. was she a Garnier? She wasn't that one. There could have been other children of other Garniers by that name.

If it is Thomas's first wife was a Garnier, then any of the daughters of William and Harriet could be candidates. And if they were born in Beverley (Yorkshire rather than the house ) it might go a long way to explaining the connection between Thomas Johnson in Beverley and his baptism in Hampshire, and a possible Garnier-Johnson marriage.

Terry

[scriv2]

Yes..I agree they are elusive in 1841!

I have also found a marriage between a William Johnson and Frances Patrick in Kirk Ella, East Yorkshire, but it is in May 1798.

[chafox]

 Kirk Ella is pretty close to Beverley.

But it isn't a Garnier connection is it.
I wonder if this Frances Patrick was born in Beverley?

If it's the same William and Frances then they must already have conceived Thomas  before the wedding.

perhaps Nell's godparenting surname  of Garnier is what fits  here after all.

Terry

[scriv2]

  I have searched extensively but not been been able to find a link between Patrick and Garnier, so this is not really helping you.

I also found a birth of a Thomas Johnson in 1835 and baptism later in 1844 in London,Camberwell to Thomas Johnson and Eliza.....but again, no mention of Garnier at all.

I did wonder if Thomas and son were still in London in 1841?

[chafox]

 I thought that there were too many options for London baptisms for Thomas Johnson, to be certain, without the wife's name.
It could be the one you give.

I have just been following  Frances Patrick back.

If it was her  there's a baptism 14 June 1780  at rawcliffe by Goole  Yks, to Joseph Patrick and Jane.

Which goes back to a Joseph Patrick and  Jane Watson Kirk Ella  8 Mar 1774.

And a William Johnson bp 23 Aug 1767 at St John Beverley to William Johnson.

that is fine of course,  and might be the whole story, but that it doesn't explain how the names Garnier and Trompett get into the family as middle names  during the preceding generations. They are Huegenot names, and Patrick, Watson, aren't.  Nor is Johnson.

The name Johnson is very common in Yorkshire, and there are many many William Johnsons. And Thomas Johnsons come to that.

Terry

[chafox]

 I just looked at the 1841 census for Lambeth and the entry for the Thomas and Eliza  runs  like this:

Thomas Johnson (30) lab   
Eliza Johnson (25)
Thomas (5)
Edward (2)

This has Thomas Sr too young, and  I would  feel less than happy with him as a "labourer" given his trade and that he "says" his father was a gentleman.
There's a better candidate in the 1841 census in Beverley who was the right age, but a lab, and I didn't like that.

the only difference being that this has the son of the right age.

There's a 1851 entry for as Thomas and Eliza in Lambeth. That gives Thomas (46)   and Eliza (35) born Kent, and a different group of children, with the oldest, a Thomas (9) .

Maybe that's the same family but the original Thomas and Edward had died.

I agree it looks the most likely IGI entry by date (1833-7), the very best being the Thomas born in 1835 in Westminster - only the IGI says that he was buried shortly afterwards.

Terry

[scriv2]

Oh dear....none of that seems right, does it? Sorry.
We need some inspiration.

[chafox]

  It just struck me.

 The Yorkshire marriage doesn't work.
 I had forgotten that William Johnson had a son before  Thomas baptised in Alresford:
 William Henry baptism in Alresford on 20 Sept 1797.

With that baptism then, and Thomas in November the following year, both in Alresford, the idea that the Kirk Ella marriage is the one we are looking for,  has to go out of the window.
And that brings us back to looking for a marriage back  in Hampshire, perhaps, prior to 1797.

Which is a good thing, as we're in the Hampshire message Board not the Yorkshire one.

Terry