Wher was he from 1885 untill 1902

[audrey]

Hi
anybody tell me where my grandfather was from his birth 1885 until he married in 1902 and do you think that there was a cover up hear and Sarah and James could of  been the grandparents
John Thomas  Rafferty's birth cert born may 1885 at portland place
father James Rafferty born Ireland
mother Sarah [formaly Shaw] to early for the 1881 but i do have the family details
1891 census now in Mitford street
James Rafferty born Ireland  age 56
Sarah  wife age 54 born halwhistle
Ellen age 23 daughter born "    "
Francis age 20 son born  newcastle
James age 15 son  born  "   "
 as you can see no John Thomas Rafferty he is not on the 1901 either
but he shows in 1905 married to my grandmother he must have only been 20 i also have his death cert for 1950 which gave his age as 65 years  I have a feeling looking at the age of James and Sarah that John could of been the son of their daughter Ellen  also where was John from his birth to his marriage  if he was in a home would he not still be on the census  by the way this family was  roman catholic and some of Johns own children ender ed up in a catholic home and the eldest son been sent to Canada at the age of 16 by the church I would love to unravel this mi story any ideas
audrey

[casalguidi]

Hi Audrey

I don't know if you have done this before but it would be a good idea to post all the details from the 1902 marriage - when & where exactly, addresses, occupations, fathers' names & occupations, witnesses.  It would be much better to try and locate him in 1901 first ..........

Best wishes

Casalguidi

[audrey]

sadly there marriage cert gives little info the whitenesses were Mary and john smith the address just says of this parish  I do know where my grandmother lived and I know where they lived after they married  and my grandfathers occ is painter
Audrey

[Michael Dixon]

Audrey,

Not much info for you, but some questions....

Just compare the constitution of the family on Census 1881, to it on Census 1891.

Sarah ages 24 yrs, in 10, James senior ages 16 yrs in 10. Ellen only 7 yrs in 10.

Hannah, 7 on C1881 and Joseph, 1 on C1881, do not appear on C1891.

Francis on C1881 is born Haltwhistle, but on C1891 he is born Newcastle.

So it seems that your Raffertys were not good at remembering details... who can blame them !

So with that in mind, see the 18 yr old John Rafferty on Census 1901 at Elswick. Note how the census enumerator abbreviates Newcastle-upon-Tyne to "Newcastle Tyne".

There are other Raffertys in Elswick with same unusual abbreviation, including a 21 yr old Joseph.. age spot on from him been 1 on 1881.

Also a Sarah, 51, compared to her 30 on 1881 ( but now born Ireland)

Also Francis 31, from his 11 on 1881 ( but now born Ireland)

On John's marriage certificate, how old did he say he was, and what occupation is recorded for his father ?

Michael Dixon