Help with SMITH & BIRCH please

[Suanne]

Hi,

can somebody help me?  I have found the birth  25.05.1847  Peterborough,  marriage  11.02.1878  Grantham  and death  June 1902 Whittlesey, of my gg grandfather Richard DOLBY.  He married Mary Ann BIRCH who was born 18.03.1861 in  Lincoln Work House,  death  March 1945  Grantham.

It is the line of Mary Ann that I am having trouble with.  Her father was Azar BIRCH  from  her  marriage lines b abt.1830  Nailstone, Leicester.  He married Caroline SMITH b  abt. 1840,  Harmston, Lincs.  On their marriage lines he is Azar BIRCH but he is Azar SMITH on his baptism.   He was a Chimney Sweep as was his father Edward SMITH dec. and mother was Folentine on his baptism but on their other childrens she is Valentine. 

The father of Caroline SMITH Azar's wife from their marriage certificate is Askley SMITH dec. and her mother is Hannah from her baptism entry.

Azar and Caroline had some 17 children that I have found

Azar & Caroline  lived in the same street as Richard and Mary Ann  =  Vere Court, Grantham.

Azar was in prisoned many times for poaching and I have some entries from a book about Grantham.

I know this is rather confusing but I hope I am keeping you with me!!!!!

Anyway,  Azar, I have been told is a Romany name 'Azariah' is this true???

I can find no information BMD or otherwise for Edward SMITH,  or Folentine (Valentine).

Or Askley SMITH, who was also a Chimney sweep, and Hannah??  Although on Carolines baptism entry is states that they are 'Gipsy' in the Quality, Trade or Profession colum.

I am going quietly mad.....I think.  Any suggestion or info would be gratefully received.

Suanne

[babygirl101]

Suanne

I've sent you a pm on this one.

BG 

[babygirl101]

I've also noticed you have connections with the Dolbys.

The Smiths, Dolbys, Bowers, Places, Beards, Crowders and Prices all intermarried. The connection seems to be around gipsies. Certainly Dolbys, Beards, Bowers and Prices were all hawkers of some sort, mainly earthernware so its likely that they met up with gipsy families on their travels, but it's quite possible that some of them were gipsies too.

BG 

[tiggi]

Not sure if this is any help but I found it in my notes .........

Marriage listed in 1803
Leicestershire: - Register of Marriages, 1561-1837 Calendar of Wills Proved and of Administrations Granted in the Commissary Court of the Peculiar and Exempt Jurisdiction of Groby, 1580-1800. Marriages at Thurmaston, 1719 to 1837. Volume 4. County: Leicestershire Country: England
 Samuel Birch & Elizabeth Riley 11 Apr 1803

 *****************
Parents Edward Smith b 1795 & Valentine ? B 1795

[babygirl101]

Tiggi

Thank you for this. I'm confused or am simply misreading this one. If the marriage took place in 1803 I can't figure out the bit about the parents being born 1795??.

I've got Edward Smith & Valentine as the parents of :-

Azey 1831
Jeremiah 1835
Selina 1826
Riley 1823

Am I just having one of my senior moments???

BG

[tiggi]

No sorry its me I should have turned the page of my notes I understand why I had this written down now :
I was looking up Riley Smith Birch
so think parents belong to him not the other couple
So sorry

1871 Census  Little Gonerby and Manthorpe Lincolnshire   
Riley Smith Birch   53 b 1818  Thorney, Cambridgeshire, England    Hawker
William Birch         16 b 1855  Swaton, Lincolnshire, England
Charlotte Birch        15 b1856  Syston, Lincolnshire, England

Riley Birch b 1817 – died 1901 aged 84 Jan/Feb/Mar Grantham (1837-1933) County: Leicestershire, Lincolnshire Volume: 7a Page:

Riley Birch  b 1873 Apr/May/June Grantham Leicestershire, Lincolnshire  7a 473

Riley Birch  m 1846 Oct.Nov.Dec Grantham  Leicestershire, Lincolnshire 14 693
Maria Smith
Also listed was a Emily Smith & Robert Hanwood

Riley Birch m 1895 Annie Elizabeth Birkett Jan/Feb/Mar  Grantham  Leicestershire, Lincolnshire 7a574

1891 Census Manthorpe Cum Little Gonerby  Grantham  Lincolnshire   
Abram Birch     67 b 1824  Nelson, Leicestershire, England   Chimmey Sweeper
Caroline            58 b 1833  Harmston, Lincolnshire, England
Charles T          28 b 1863  Grantham, Lincolnshire, England
Riley                 18 b 1873  Grantham, Lincolnshire, England
Arthur               16 b 1875  Grantham, Lincolnshire, England

1901 Census   Newark St Leonard Nottinghamshire
Riley Birch 27 b 1874  Grantham, Lincolnshire, England   Maltser
Annie E       27 b 1874  Grantham, Lincolnshire, England
Kate E           5 b  1896 Grantham, Lincolnshire, England
Richard E  10mths b 1900  Newark, Nottinghamshire, England


Riley Senior had daughter Mary Ann  ( b 1850) married John Henry Short b 1849  Gonerby  Grantham  Lincolnshire
Charlotte died 1877 Grantham

[Suanne]

Thanks for this info everyone.  I will be sending pm to tiggi and babygirl101 as have a coulpe of reports they may be interested in.

Suanne.

[babygirl101]

Thanks Tiggi for clarifying that one, I've been doing this all day and thought I was losing the plot lol.

I'd got the info for 1891 for Riley, but not the rest, so many thanks for that.

BG 

[tiggi]

I found some bits : Might help someone
 Northants Baps ( all listed as travellers)

Henry Birch son Henry & Hannah 1791 20th Mar Syresham C/E Pershore Worcester

Isabel Birch daughter Henry & Hannah 1786 18th June Hellidon

Rebechah Birch daughter of Henry & Hannah 1798 7th Oct Alderton

 ***************

Marriages :
Edward Smith & Mary Cooper
1787 Waddington Lincolinshire

Edward Smith & Nanny Wood
1802 Upholland Lincolinshire

Christening
Harsley Smith 1758        ( unusual name?)
Burton on slater Lin
Edward & Sarah

Samson Smith 1768
Harmston Lin
Edward & Ann Smith