Tracing Armagh ancestors early 1800's - Carrick/Robinson

[ansimi]

I've been researching this Robinson line and have several newspaper notices relating to this family.

There are references to Thomas Robinson being of Richmount and of Deviny (various spellings) but I believe it's the same person.

Isabella is named as the eldest daughter of Thomas Robinson of Divenny on her 1825 marriage notice.

Mary is named as the youngest daughter of the late Thomas Robinson of Richmount on her 1840 marriage notice. Mary's only daughter was named Sophia and this Sophia's 1918 will leaves a "miniature of Ruddell Todd" to Dr James Robinson of Cardiff who was grandson of Thomas and Sophia Robinson of Deviny (son of Richard Robinson named in Sophia Robinson's will). So I'm pretty confident that Dr James Robinson (former Lord Mayor of Cardiff) was her first cousin which would (in a roundabout way) establish Thomas Robinson of Richmount and Thomas Robinson of Deviny as one and the same while also suggesting a relationship to somebody named Ruddell Todd.

Thomas Robinson of Richmount died 3 Feb 1830 aged 45.

I have no source for the maiden name of Thomas Robinson's wife Sophia. Is the name Sophia Ruddell Todd on an Australian record for one of her children?

[DavidG02]

(grr posted a full post and lost it)

Thank you ansimi for clearing up the Richard or Thomas question. Various family websites seem to have repeated the error of Richard. Though to be honest my subs site doesn't have a marriage of either name to a Sophia Todd

An interesting side note this from one of the ''family websites'' [Some of the remaining information in this section is provided by Mrs A**** Buttfield (1994), whose relative G**** Robinson of Portadown responded to an inquiry by Mrs Buttfield published 1994 in the Ulster Gazette. G****  great-grandfather was an elder brother of Mrs Buttfield’s grandfather. It was this information that identified Sophia's husband as Thomas.

I haven't really followed this family past South Australia as they have been well documented to my project cut off date , along with the struggle with some Irish records.

I have penciled in some info - and please note I have no sources so proceed with caution- about Sophia Ruddle Todd. I have a note that says she was born in Portadown 1780 to John Ruddle and Belle Todd. I seem to recall a note suggesting Sophia was Base Born. I also have a precise date ( not sure why its precise??? ) of death 14.9.1866 Divenny

My connection is through my ex wife and son. An interesting genetic question. Have you found either the Carrick or Robinson female line to be short lived? I have noticed some early deaths - even into the 20th century - that suggest more than 19th century conditions.

 I will study the other info you posted and see what I can find. Thanks once again

[Kells]

Thank you for the interesting information about Thomas Robinson. I have established that the previous reference of Richard as the spouse for Sophia was in error. I have not found any further information about Thomas so this is very useful. Where were you able to find a marriage date for his daughter Isabella? Do you have details of any of the other children?

In answer to the questions about Sophia Ruddell-Todd, the information about her name initially came from the death certificate for her son Benjamin. I have traced her family further back with wills and have found her parents to be John and Bell Ruddell. John of Aghacommon died in 1790 and his will names children David, Jane, Sophia, James and Charles. David Ruddell died in Shiraz in 1832 (of the East India Company) and is the only one to have retained the name Ruddell as it was. In his will he bequeathed to his sisters Jane Todd of Portsborow and Sophia Robinson of Richmount, and his brother James Ruddell-Todd of Ballinteggart and Adelphi in London, and also Charles Todd the son of his sister Jane. The will of James Ruddell-Todd also mentions sister Sophia Robinson. Therefore my conclusion based on available evidence is that Sophia Robinson was Sophia Ruddell-Todd the daughter of John Ruddell and his wife Bell (who may have been a Todd). An executor of the will of John Ruddell was Mr James Todd. One could assume that the name Todd was added by the children as heirs of an estate? I have no further information as to why they added the Todd. They had connections as David mentions his friend and relation Major James Stuart of the Honourable Army Bengal establishment (can be found in the peerage).

It is all very interesting. I plan to purchase the will of David Ruddell of Aghacommon who is likely to be the father of John. Maybe this will help to understand the relationships further.

[Kells]

I neglected to mention that James Ruddell-Todd was a director of the South Australian Company, and member for parliament.

[DavidG02]

Thank you for the interesting information about Thomas Robinson. I have established that the previous reference of Richard as the spouse for Sophia was in error. I have not found any further information about Thomas so this is very useful. Where were you able to find a marriage date for his daughter Isabella? Do you have details of any of the other children?

As posted by ansimi - 1825. This is confirmed on my subscription site. Now I have to confirm 1809 as Isabellas birth as that makes her 16 at marriage. I like the 1829 marriage as David was born 1830. Or did James Carrick ''wait'' - need more info.

In answer to the questions about Sophia Ruddell-Todd, the information about her name initially came from the death certificate for her son Benjamin. I have traced her family further back with wills and have found her parents to be John and Bell Ruddell. John of Aghacommon died in 1790 and his will names children David, Jane, Sophia, James and Charles. David Ruddell died in Shiraz in 1832 (of the East India Company) and is the only one to have retained the name Ruddell as it was. In his will he bequeathed to his sisters Jane Todd of Portsborow and Sophia Robinson of Richmount, and his brother James Ruddell-Todd of Ballinteggart and Adelphi in London, and also Charles Todd the son of his sister Jane. The will of James Ruddell-Todd also mentions sister Sophia Robinson. Therefore my conclusion based on available evidence is that Sophia Robinson was Sophia Ruddell-Todd the daughter of John Ruddell and his wife Bell (who may have been a Todd). An executor of the will of John Ruddell was Mr James Todd. One could assume that the name Todd was added by the children as heirs of an estate? I have no further information as to why they added the Todd. They had connections as David mentions his friend and relation Major James Stuart of the Honourable Army Bengal establishment (can be found in the peerage).

It is all very interesting. I plan to purchase the will of David Ruddell of Aghacommon who is likely to be the father of John. Maybe this will help to understand the relationships further.

Thank you for that extra. If you find anymore please post it as I am interested as well. Or PM me

[DavidG02]

As to other siblings the only 1 I can find was a Benjamin who is said to have emigrated in 1839.

From this blog site. https://mycarrickfamilyhistory.wordpress.com/

Shipping record I cant find any. I did find this which is most interesting and a confirmed link.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article71600655  (page 4 column 3 ) A petition to keep convicts out of SA - a snippet

Luke Veale, Richmond
Benjamin Robinson, Divenny Farm
William Hob nt, Rundle street
James M'Donald, Noarlunga
William Draper Poole, Carrington street

This talks of another brother JOHN  ( possibly) but it is in Noarlunga and it says brother to Benjamin

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article27450693

So if correct - that is Isabella , John and Benjamin

[Kells]

Benjamin was an early resident of Noarlunga before leaving for Victoria. Isabella came out well after her brother, in 1847. I also saw the reference to John Robinson but cannot trace him. I wondered about any other siblings in Ireland too.

The blog you referenced is by a distant cousin of mine with whom I share information. I've worked on it quite a bit over the last year or so, and also had my father's DNA tested for genetic genealogy purposes (he is the great great grandson of Isabella Carrick nee Robinson). I have made one firm Carrick connection but nothing leading to the other side as yet.

I've been using Find My Past and PRONI for most of my research. FindMyPast had the attached record which has the date of marriage for Isabella as 1825. I think the 1809 birth date may have been loosely based on an age given at death.

I'm happy to continue correspondence privately if you'd like, then I can supply more of the documents I have found.

I am interested in the information Ansimi had about Mary Robinson too.

[ansimi]

Thank you for explaining Benjamin and the sourcing the name. Do you have a birth year reference for him?

Sophia Robinson (nee Ruddell Todd?) left a will that names sons Hugh, Richard, and James who were all still in the area. One of Hugh's records includes the middle name of Todd. Her will doesn't mention her daughter Mary who was married and still living in the area so there may have been several other children already provided for and not named in the will.

Newspaper notices all available on British Newspaper Archives or Findmypast, transcriptions by me, please consult originals:

"On the 15th instant, at Drumcree Church, by the Rev Robert Henry, Mr James Todd Carrick, of Richmount, in the county of Armagh, to Isabella, eldest daughter of Mr Thomas Robinson, of Divenny, in said county." (Belfast Commercial Chronicle, 21 Sep 1825)

"On the 3d, at his house in Richmount, near Portadown, after a dedious illness, Mr Thomas Robinson, aged 45 years." (Belfast News Letter, 19 Feb 1830)

"On the 30th ult, at Drumcree Church, by the Rev D Babington, John Walker Redmond, Esq, of Grange, to Mary, youngest daughter of the late Thomas Robinson, Esq, of Richmount." (Belfast Commercial Chronicle, 11 May 1840)

"On the 1st March last, at Kyak Phoo, Arracan, India, of fever, Ensign Thomas Robinson, of the 66th Regiment, Bengal NI, Hon FLCS, aged 23 years, son of the late Thomas Robinson, Esq, Devinney, near Portadown." (Northern Whig, 25 May 1843)

"September 14, at Devinney, near Portadown, Sophia, widow of the late Mr Thomas Robinson, aged eighty-eight years." (Northern Whig, 19 Sep 1866)

[Kells]

Thank you this is great!

I have a British subscription to FindMyPast only and found I couldn't access all Irish records but will check them again.

Incidentally I have a photograph of a Robinson who is decorated with medals and believed to be Frederick Robinson, surgeon with the Scots Fusiliers in the eastern campaign. I am not sure where this comes from as it was given to me, so there is no certainty about the identity.

Sophia's will also makes no mention of her children in Australia, though I suppose that is not surprising given the distance, so perhaps there were other children not named as well.

Here is a snip also from Ben Robinson's death certificate, which gives his age as 78 in 1899 and so a birth date would be around 1821.

Thanks for your correspondence. I assume you are a descendant too?