Lost at Sea

[TeddyEdward]

I am amazed and truly grateful for all of your responses.  I now have a number of leads which I will pursue.  I would still like to find an official report on the event and I am now interested to see whether Joseph Clarke was awarded any posthumous award as my Grandfather said it was the most heroic act he had ever seen.

[HMac]

There should be a report in the ship's official log which is held at the National Archives in piece BT 381/312 at this link here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8174761&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2C148845&accessmethod=0

Hit the link then hit "Request this" then take the Digital Express option and follow instructions. You need to be specific and ask for the "Narrative of the ship's log for SAGAING official number  148845 for the month of October 1939". It is very important that you stress that you need the NARRATIVE otherwise you may get other parts of the official log that mean nothing to you.

The cost for this file will be £8.50 for up to 10 document pages direct to your email address on a no find no fee basis (24 hour service).

The passenger list for SAGAING that disembarked at Liverpool on 21st October 1939 is held at the National Archives in piece BT 26/1174/25 at this link: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-4489599&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2C148845&accessmethod=0

Passenger/cargo ship SAGAING official number 148845 built in 1925 by W. Denny, Dumbarton for P.Henderson & Co.

Bombed by Japanese aircraft, Trincomalee 9.4.1942 & beached.

Hope that is of some help to you.

Regards
Hugh

[TeddyEdward]

Hugh:

Many thanks for the info I will take time out this coming week and follow this and the other leads I have been given.  Again many thanks I am extremely grateful.

Regards
Teddy

[RoyW]

Hello Teddy,
I have also been trying to research the same incident as my grandparents were on the same jouney involving the same ships and the sinking of the hospital ship SSYorkshire.They also sadly lost 2 of their children who were tipped out of a lifeboat that had the ropes cut.
My Grandfather was a staff seargent at the time and I have a copy of the statement he made about the incident if you ARE interested.
It has only just been sent to me and it stirred my interest again and did a google only to find you story.
I am not very savvy with these web sites so I hope this reaches you
RoyW

[RICH99]

This is off subject but what intrust do you have in Jim Matthews records who are you

[lmjoseph]

Hello I am the daughter of Maureen Joseph (nee Wells) she was on the ship SS Sagaing with her mum Mary Elizabeth Wells and her sister Patricia.  I have already located Robert Loakes as my Mum was friends with Jacklyn and Patricia James.  My grandfather was stationed in India since 1934 and they were there during the Quetta earthquake and left in Sept. 1939 on the Sagaing.  My Mum only recently passed and started a book and I am trying now to succeed to a documentary as I have done 2 films prior and feel this story needs to be told.  My Mum was lined up to be put into the lifeboats when the ship was thought to be hit.  Panic ensued when the Indian Passengers broke through and the lifeboats tipped.  They watched the James girls and Mum die.  This was something that caused much trauma to my grandmother, my mum and Aunt.  They all wrote about watching the other boats being torpedoed.  I have never seen any other accounts and would love to see them and if any persons feel that they would like to participate in this project they would be most welcome.  I am coming to England in May or June to start again the process of research and would like to know where any documents you know of can be seen. Respectfully, Lisa Joseph

[lmjoseph]

My Mum was a child on the boat with her mum Mary Wells and her sister Pat.  My Mum said they boarded the Nevasa in bombay and then went on the SS Sagaing.  My mum was 7 at the time but she had thought they were on the Nevasa when the boat was hit by the depth charger but it seems she must of transferred onto the Sagaing.  During the panic my mum was getting into the lifeboat when a Indian passenger grabbed her from the boat from her hair and panic broke out.  Luckily my nana - Mary Wells decided if they were to die it was going to be on the boat.  They watched as there friends The James family drowned and had to tell the husband in Liverpool.  I would love to see any written accounts as my Mum has worked on a book for years but passed last year and I promised to finish the book and I promised that if possible we would venture to make a documentary film.  Now with my experience as a social documentarian I would like to document as much on film.  I also have much more info and photos on deck of both boats.  Love to hear more, Lisa

[RoyW]

Hi,
I have been researching this topic for sometime as my grandparents lost 2 children in this incident and a further child was rescued from one of the life boats.One man was washedaway trying to rescue my uncle but another man managed to get him from the boat. Family history has it that it was an Irish Yachtsman who apparently came to see my grandparents sometime after the war as he was writting a book about the incident.(I cannot find a book with reference to the incident.)My mother was dropped between one of the lifeboats and the ship and was thought lost but she was swept onto a deck below and survived)My grandfather WAS a staff sergeant i the RA and I have a copy of the statement he made about the incident at the time.My aunt Margaret was also on board but was a baby at the time so has little recollection.The ships log can be viewed at the National archive but only under supervision it has not been digitised and you cannot order copies by e mail.The ships log shows some variation from my Grandfathers statement and some suspicious features when compared to other logs contained in the same folder. The incident was not written up until after the ship docked.The crew members registrations were all in the same hand not so in the other logs they seemed to have all signed in individually.I guess it may have been doctored for moral purposes. I noted at the time that the log had been taken to the board of trade at some point and wonder if there was some sort of enquiry but I have no Idea how to research that.There is a German U Boat site that has an account of the attack on the convoy.I emailed a lot of this information to Robert Loakes and I believe he may have forwarded it to you. I am not very savvy at this so I am not sure I could attach stuff here but I know how to do It with email so if you care to send me your email I will forward any thing you require. I have pictures on my I pad of the entries in the ships log I could send them to you.I obtained Death certificates for the 2 lost boys
I was never able to discuss the incident with my grand parents I new they had lost Edgar and Rowland on  the way back from India but it was never really talked about.Apparently my Gran was convinced till she dies that one of the boys had survived but I never knew this until recently. My mother had the miraculous escape falling between decks but had never mentioned it until my Grandads statement turned up even that was quite mysterious as his sister suddenly decided to produce at a family gathering and neither my mother or her sister knew of its existence.
I have stopped asking my mother about the incident as she began to have nightmares again about the ship that sunk the previous day(The Yorkshire) some of the lifeboats were pulled down into the void. There is an account by a survivor of this sinking in the archive I think of the New York Times/herald it comes up if you google Yorkshire sinking.There is also an account in a kentish parish magazine and I believe maybe some sort of memorial plaque.It sounds from your reply as if you are used to researching so you will probably have done better than I so I would gratefully received  any other information that you have.We live in south east London if you are coming over to London it may be possible to meet if you wish.
Kind regards RoyW

[NickDooley]

regarding Convoy HG-3, I have an Elderly friend (98) who was on the ship "Regestan" that was part of that convoy sailing back to UK from Gibraltar. On the 17 Oct 1939 she had just went on deck, she was looking straight across at the ship "Yorkshire" which was the ship next to hers in the convoy, next thing a massive orange flame went up from the "Yorkshire" she had been hit by a U-Boat. On the right side of the “Regestan” was the ship "City Of Mandalay", within a few minutes of the "Yorkshire" being hit, the "City Of Mandalay" was also hit, both ships sank in about 14 minutes.
My friend Phyllis, often talks about that day, and I said I would try and find out about it and if anyone had any more information or stories of that time. I have a lot of German U-boat reports and a lot of conflicting reports. She didn't see anyone get out of the “Yorkshire” or the "City Of Mandalay", but reports say 300 were rescued.

My E-mail is nicholas.dooley@ntlworld.com
Nick Dooley