Death at sea

[susan j]

My grandparents died on SS Persia when it was torpedoed in the Med in Dec. 1915 on its way to India. Where would their deaths be registered and how long would it take for them to be registered? (As far as I know their bodies were never recoverd). They were from Dundee but I can't find any trace of their deaths on Scotlands People.
Thanks
Susan

[ev]

hi susan 

it might be worth adding this to the ww1 thread in armed forces

ev

[susan j]

Hi!
Yes, I think you're right. There are (rightly) so many memorials and ways of remembering people who died in the armed forces during the war but there is very little to remember or research civilians who died as a direct result of enemy action.
Thanks for replying!
Susan

[mosstrooper]

I don't know how much you already know about the ship, SS Persia. but here are a few facts to begin with. I researched the death of my uncle John on the SS Socony during ww2 and will look out the method of getting the information you require, I do know deaths at sea are not in the usual place.

There is a permanent memorial at Bucklers Hard in Hampshire to SS Persia. See here :-
Descendents of passengers who died when a German U-boat attacked the P&O liner, SS Persia, more than 90 years ago, have praised the new exhibition at Buckler's Hard as "a permanent memorial'' to those who were lost following the torpedo attack.



James.

 SS Persia was a P&O passenger liner, built in 1900 by Caird & Company, Inverclyde, Greenock, Scotland. It was torpedoed and sunk without warning on December 30, 1915, by German U-Boat commander Max Valentiner.

Nearly 500 feet (152.34 m) long, with a beam of 53 feet (16.55 m), draft of 24.5 feet (7.47 m) and a size of 7,974 gross register tons (GRT), the Persia carried triple expansion steam engines capable of driving the ship at a respectable 18 knots (33.3 km/h).

Persia was sunk off Crete, while the passengers were having lunch, on December 30, 1915, by German World War I U-Boat ace Max Valentiner (commanding U-38). The Persia sank in five to ten minutes, killing 343 of the 519 aboard. The sinking was highly controversial, since it broke naval international law, or the "Cruiser Rules", that stated merchant shipping carrying passengers should be given opportunity for the passengers to disembark before combat could commence. A warning shot across the bow should have been given first. Instead, the U-Boat fired a torpedo with no warning. At the time of sinking, Persia was carrying a large quantity of gold and jewels belonging to the Maharaja Jagatjit Singh.



Wreck locationAmong the passengers to survive were John Douglas-Scott-Montagu, 2nd Baron Montagu of Beaulieu. His secretary (and mistress) Eleanor Thornton, who was the model for the Rolls-Royce "Spirit of Ecstasy" mascot by Charles Robinson Sykes, died. The story was front page news on many British newspapers, including the Daily Mirror and the Daily Sketch.

The wreck of the Persia was located off Crete in 2003 at a depth of 10,000 feet (3,000 m), and an attempt was made to salvage the treasure located in the bullion room. The salvage attempt met with limited success, retrieving artifacts and portions of the ship, and some jewels from the bullion room

[susan j]

Dear James,
Thank you very much for replying. I appreciate the fact that you have gone to so much trouble. It was really difficult to find out which ship they were on (it might seem strange but everybody in the family has different versions about where and when they died) but by a stroke of great fortune I discovered the truth when I was in Dundee in September and looking through some old newspapers in the excellent family history centre in the Wellgate library. So I have been able to find out quite a lot about the accident and also about my grandparents (my father never spoke about it or perhaps as a child I didn't listen!). To wind the story up finally I think I would also like to see their death certificates and out of sheer curiosity I would like to see the will. They had quite a story, going from sheer poverty to wealthy in a very short space of time. I know this because I know where my father was born in 1899 and the newspapers told me where he was living in 1915 - the difference is astounding. I'm also trying to track down their huge families - they had lots of brothers and sisters and presumably there are living descendants.
Anyway...thank you for your help. It was much appreciated.
Susan

[craigs]

Dear Susan,

I saw your post while searching for further Persia information - it is a ship I have been researching for a few years.

Your relatives deaths were recorded with others lost on the vessel, and are held at the NA in Kew. They form part of the deaths at sea series BT99/3112. I have a copy of them if you would like to know what it says about your relatives.

Given the Dundee reference can I ask if your grandparents were Mr and Mrs Burns? If so, are you aware they were travelling with a Mr Alexander Clark, who survived. I must admit I know very little about Mr and Mrs Burns.

Hope this helps
Craig

[susan j]

Thank you for replying.
Yes these are my grandparents and Alexander Clark was my grandmother's sister's husband. He survived after clinging to an upturned lifeboat for 24 hours with Lord Montagu and some others.
Thank you also for telling me where I can see their deaths recorded. I know for sure that they were on the ship (since I discoverd in September which ship they were on I have read so many newspaper cuttings about the event). However I felt for some reason that to end many years of wondering and trying in vain to find out what happened to them that I would like to tie things up by seeing their death certificate.
I aslo have lots of info about the Persia. There is also a new lasting memorial to the vistims at Bucklers Hard near Beaulieu in Hampshire.
I'll send you a PM.
Susan

[susan j]

Hi Craigs,
I'm trying to send you a personal message but for some reason it won't work. I'll keep trying.
Susan

[susan j]

Ok... I've discovered that I can't get through to you with a persoanl message until you have made three postings. I'd really like to get in touch with you so get posting!
Susanj.