Author Topic: the watterloo  (Read 3961 times)

Offline J.A.M.

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the watterloo
« on: Friday 13 March 09 21:03 GMT (UK) »
Hello everyone,

I have a transcript of a letter sent 10 June 1883 by Samuel Colville from Dublin to his parents in Islandmagee. He was writing from Schr Jewess, Spencer Dock, Dublin.

In the letter he writes 'let me know if James McCalmont is at home since he left the watterloo'.

I don't believe 'the waterloo' is a ship, rail station etc. because he capitalizes all other words that are proper nouns.

Can anyone suggest what 'the watterloo' is? regardless of incorrect spelling.

Thank you.

J.A.M.
Islandmagee, County Antrim, Ireland

Offline TheWhuttle

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Re: the watterloo
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 15 March 09 10:09 GMT (UK) »
J.A.M.,

I reckon that he'd have been referring to the famous dock
in Ireland's other capital city ... Liverpool!

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/nof/docks/access/dock_history5.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Waterloo_Dock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Waterloo_Dock

Easy to get to from either Belfast or Dublin on the daily "packet" boats.
[Or private schooner.]
 
Capt. Jock
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

"You can't give kindness away enough, it keeps coming back to you."
Mark Twain (aka Samuel CLEMENTS) [Family origins from Ballynure, Co. Antrim.]

Offline aghadowey

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Re: the watterloo
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 15 March 09 10:22 GMT (UK) »
There's a Waterloo Bay near Larne which might be more likely based on the Islandmagee connection.
www.habitas.org.uk/larne/Larneposter1lowres.pdf
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline J.A.M.

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Re: the watterloo
« Reply #3 on: Monday 16 March 09 13:52 GMT (UK) »
Dear Aghadowey & Capt. Jock,

Thank you for the info. I'll follow up on it right now.

Roger
Islandmagee, County Antrim, Ireland


Offline TheWhuttle

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Re: the watterloo
« Reply #4 on: Monday 16 March 09 17:25 GMT (UK) »
Hmm ... (aka lateral thinking!) ... another angle ...

Presumably JMcC's "home" was on dry land.
Maybe "the watterloo" was too ...
[This seems to fit (the context of the phrase in the letter) better.]

There is a big clue in that (geological) document - viz. "Blue Lias".
Jurassic chalks that have been squashed and heated ... producing limestone.
[These ones are the main constituent (once crushed and roasted) for making cement e.g. at Rugby, Warks.]


So, look for a limestone association with Waterloo Bay ...
... and there it is ...

The "Waterloo Lime Kiln" works near Larne:
http://www.larne.gov.uk/uploads/docs/Heritage_Trail2.pdf

Presumably so named (after 1815 obviously) because it was situated at the seaward end of Waterloo Road.  No doubt known colloquially to the locals as "the Waterloo".
[A physically prominent landscape feature, factory and major employer.]

Presumably then the bay was given its name from the works.
[However, it is not shown on the map.
 OSNI Discover Series BALLYMENA, LARNE 1:50000 Sheet 9.]

----

The works may have had its own jetty, to allow commercial-trading ships to load directly.
[If not, then its products would have had to be carted laboriously to Larne harbour.]

SC may have docked "The Jewess" at such a jetty.

JMcC may have been aboard as a passenger.
[In this case "leaving" could be interpreted simply as meaning that he chose to disembark in the bay or at the works.]

JMcC may have been aboard as a member of the crew.
[In this case "leaving" could mean that he chose to finish his immediate sailing engagement (apprenticeship?) at that "port".]


If there was no jetty at the works, SC may have anchored in the bay.
[The bay is likely to have been a holding area for ships waiting (for appropriate tides, winds, pilots, wharfs, etc. to become available in order) to get in/out of Larne harbour.
Whilst at anchor offshore, rather than wait, particularly impatient passengers may have been disembarked to the sandy shores of the bay.]

----

The schooner "Jewess" seems to have been involved in the coastal trade.
[i.e. a smallish fast vessel carrying a variety of cargoes from large (importing) ports to nearby minor ports.]

SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE - IRVINE
Arrived - Argylle and Jewess, both from Larne.
[Ref: Glasgow Herald, Monday, May 30, 1887; Issue 128]

SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE - IRVINE
Arrived Aug 17, Mary Colville, Belfast, beans.
Sailed Aug 17, Jewess, Londonderry, coal
[Ref: Glasgow Herald, Tuesday, August 18, 1891; Issue 197.

SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE - GLASGOW
Arrived - Jewess, Belfast, scrap iron

SAILED FROM THE TAIL OF THE BANK
Blenheim, 1977, Colville, from Glasgow for Wellington, N.Z.- general

[Ref: Glasgow Herald, Monday, September 21, 1896; Issue 227.]


You can some nice pictures of schooners here ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schooner
[Interesting stuff in there about the origins of scooners (sic) in America.]

You might get more info (even a picture) of the "Jewess" by engaging a researcher at the National Maritime Museum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maritime_Museum
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/

Full details should appear in the Lloyds Registers of Shipping.
[Archive copies can be consulted at the Guild Hall in London.]

----

More likely, JMcC wasn't aboard any ship.
He was a worker at the lime kiln, who had chosen to end his employment there.

It is interesting to speculate about who he was.
Perhaps just a friend of SC's family.

----

However, there was a very prominent/rich family of McCALMONTs in county Antrim.
[Just the sort of folks who would own such a works.]

They hailed from Scotland originally, moving to Cairncastle (near Larne) in 1641.
They made their money trading to America and the West Indies.
At least one of them was a sea captain.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MCCALLMON-THOMAS/2007-04/1175716515

They lived at Abbeylands (near Whiteabbey), county Antrim in the 19thC.
Captain James McCALMONT (1847-1913) was (Conservative) M.P. for East Antrim (1885-1913).
[Presumably taking over after James WHITTLE's great-grandson James CHAINE (the "Father of Larne") worked himself (literally) in to the ground preparing for the Royal visit.  His monument at the harbour was turned in to a lighthouse in 1899.]

Some of the family's other illustrious members can be seen here ...
http://www.ulsterbiography.co.uk/biogsMac1.htm

DEATHS
Mr. Robert McCALMONT, of Abbeylands, county Antrim, at Gatton Park, Surrey, aged 75, Dec 2.
[Ref: The Pall Mall Gazette, Tuesday, December 4, 1883; Issue 5850.]

MARRIAGES
On 29th ult., Colonel Hugh McCALMONT, C.B., 7th Hussars, eldest son of the late James McCALMONT, Esq., of Abbeylands, county Antrim, to Honble. Rose Elizabeth, youngest daughter of the late Lord Clanmorris.
[Ref: The Ipswich Journal, Tuesday, October 6, 1885; Issue 8292]

They may be the Messrs. McCALMONT Bros. & Co who traded from Philpot Lane, London E.C.
[In to railways in a big way.  Aha, so were the CHAINEs.]

----

Maybe this Capt JMcC gave up his directorship of the works in order to concentrate his efforts elsewhere.
[The Liberals were pushing "Home Rule" hard around this time.]

SC may have been referring to him, perhaps hoping to contact him for business or political reasons.

N.B. SC may NOT have been a seaman.
Perhaps the McC's owned the "Jewess"?

Capt. Jock
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

"You can't give kindness away enough, it keeps coming back to you."
Mark Twain (aka Samuel CLEMENTS) [Family origins from Ballynure, Co. Antrim.]

Offline J.A.M.

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Re: the watterloo
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 19 March 09 13:42 GMT (UK) »
Capt. Jock,

That is an awesome lot of information, thank you.

I think your first idea is correct that James McCalmont worked at the lime works. The Colville & McCalmont families were both seamen & farmers but I guess James may not have liked the water. I can positively say that James was not one of the well-to-do McCalmont's.

If I can find out exactly who James was I believe it will show that James McCalmont & Samuel Colville were related by the marriage of James brother Alexander to Samuel's sister ElizaJane. Both families lived in Islandmagee.

I hope there is a list of Waterloo Lime Kiln employees somewhere.

I've discovered that Samuel was lost at sea in 1887 with the foundering of the 'Colorado'.

I'll let you know how I fare.

Roger
Islandmagee, County Antrim, Ireland

Offline J.A.M.

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Re: the watterloo COMPLETED WITH THANKS.
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 18 June 17 17:43 BST (UK) »
There was a convict ship named 'Waterloo' but it was destroyed in a storm in 1842.
A wooden sailing ship #48749 was registered at Boston 1872; a brigantine registered at Halifax, N.S. 1847 & a wooden barge #33531 registered at Montreal.
The kiln theory is highly unlikely.
I think I'll put this away at this point.
Thanks to all who made suggestions.

J.A.M.
Islandmagee, County Antrim, Ireland

Offline J.A.M.

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Re: the watterloo COMPLETED WITH THANKS.
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 17 August 17 14:05 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone,

I have a transcript of a letter sent 10 June 1883 by Samuel Colville from Dublin to his parents in Islandmagee. He was writing from Schr Jewess, Spencer Dock, Dublin.

In the letter he writes 'let me know if James McCalmont is at home since he left the watterloo'.

I don't believe 'the waterloo' is a ship, rail station etc. because he capitalizes all other words that are proper nouns.

Can anyone suggest what 'the watterloo' is? regardless of incorrect spelling.

Thank you.

J.A.M.
Islandmagee, County Antrim, Ireland

Online ShaunJ

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Re: the watterloo
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 17 August 17 14:20 BST (UK) »
A James McCalmont, sea captain, was a member of the Island Magee freemasons lodge from 1873.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk