Author Topic: COMPLETED * McPHEE family in Kilmallie  (Read 43501 times)

Offline fred2derf

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Re: McPHEE family in Kilmallie
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 22 March 09 05:11 GMT (UK) »
Hello Monica,

Alexander SANDS parents were John & Janet (Jessie) ANDERSON - and then John's parents James & Elizabeth and Janet's parents Alexander and Janet.

Alexander SANDS and spouse Catherine McDONALD named their children:

Euphemia McPhee
Jessie Anderson
Catherine Charlotte McDonald
Annie Duncan Gordon
Alexander Anderson
Jamesina McDonald
Helen McDonald
John

I don't know where the Gordon comes from.

Regards,

Fred


Offline fred2derf

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Re: McPHEE family in Kilmallie
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 22 March 09 05:36 GMT (UK) »
Hello Monica,

This is looking very interesting. I have the family you found in 1851 now:

1841
Civil Parish: Inverness
Address: Abriachan

Surname   First name(s) Sex Age    Occupation    
MCDONALD Duncan      M    54    Farmer                
MCDONALD Janet      M    50    [it should be F]                  
MCDONALD John              F    28    Blacksmith                
MCDONALD William        M    25    Shoemaker               
MCDONALD Hellen      F    15                      
MCDONALD Duncan      M    12                      
MCDONALD Isabel      F    10                      
MCDONALD Margarat      F     4

All born Inverness   

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk   

The un-named male in IGI must be William, the one you said died in 1869.   

James is not there so where is he in 1841?  Oh, there are too many James McDONALD as servants or Ag Lab in different households where head of the house is not a McDONALD.   ::)

Regards,

Fred

Offline sal60

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Re: McPHEE family in Kilmallie
« Reply #20 on: Monday 30 March 09 11:09 BST (UK) »
Fred,
I may have a connection to your Euphemia McPhee.  My ancestor was Angus McPhee who arrived in Australia in 1853 with a wife, Christy and daughter Una.  I think he is the Angus McPhee with parents Alexander and Catherine at Muirshealich in the 1851 census, possably a brother to Euphemia.
I think the Catherine you are looking for is with her grandmother Catherine in the 1861 census at Muirshealich:

Census Muirshearlich,1861. Inverness, Scotland
Catherine MacPhee Head Widow 80 Crofter Kilmalie
Ann Cameron  Daughter  34 Grocer Kilmalie
Flora Cameron  Grand 8S cholar Kilmalie
John Cameron Grand-son 10 Scholar Kilmalie
Catherine MacPhee Grand-daughter  15 Scholar  Kilmalie

Her husband Alexander died in 1857 and Catherine(snr) died in 1866. 

It's a shame no letters exist between Australia and Scotland as this might prove a connection between Angus and Euphemia and then back to Alexander and Catherine MacPhee.  Like you i have conflicting evidence about the family connection.
Cheers

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Re: McPHEE family in Kilmallie
« Reply #21 on: Monday 30 March 09 12:36 BST (UK) »
Hello sal60,

Thank you very much. This is interesting.  I have the 1841 census for that family with Ann aged 14. So she marries a CAMERON.

I don't have the 1851 census for the family so could you please post it?  Thanks.

Re grand-daughter Catharine, are you saying her father is the John aged 20 in that 1841 census? With parents Alexander and Catherine?  If so it all fits perfectly but...

the death certificate of the John McPHEE who married Janet Stewart says:

"Death: 1879; Tomonie, Corpach, Kilmallie, Scotland; John McPhee, crofter,
married to Janet Stewart; died 18 Dec 1879; age 61; parents Alexander
McPhee, crofter, deceased and Mary McPhee M.S. Cameron, deceased; witness
Alexander McPhee, son (his mark)"

Alexander was born 8 Jan 1855 Kilmallie.

Catherine's birth is a mystery. Some say 23 Nov 1853 Duror but there seems to be no proof of that and age at 2nd marriage and age at death give 1851 and 1849. Age 15 in 1861 gives a birth date even earlier.

Regards,

Fred


Offline MonicaL

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Re: McPHEE family in Kilmallie
« Reply #22 on: Monday 30 March 09 15:47 BST (UK) »
Hi Fred and sal60 (Welcome to RootsChat sal60  :))

I spent a while last week searching for Catherine McPhee daughter of John and Janet (from her second marriage details in Scotland). I did see the young Catherine with a Kilmallie birth place living with grandmother Catherine in 1851 and 1861. My question mark over these entries is confirmation of who her father/mother was. Given grandmother was a Catherine, she could be the child of any of the Alexander and Catherine children and been named after grandmother.

I find it strange that the Catherine, daughter of John and Janet (Stewart) does not show with parents at any point: 1851 when the family seem separated and oldest (?) daughter is living with maternal Stewart grandmother and then in 1861 when the family has expanded and seem altogether but no sign of Catherine in the household.

The only other entry I found was in 1871, which a possible for Catherine:

Catherine McPhee, 22 (born c. 1849) in Ruro (could this be Druro?) Argyllshire. This Catherine is working in the KEMP household as a domestic servant at 2 Clifton St, Glasgow Barony.

From 1881-1901 she shows in England married to Walter Willoughby Douce, no living children showing on the census entries.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline fred2derf

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Re: McPHEE family in Kilmallie
« Reply #23 on: Monday 30 March 09 17:16 BST (UK) »
Hello Monica,

Thank you very much for continuing to help with this puzzle.  I have several thoughts.  From a privately submitted entry Catherine was supposedly born on 23 Nov 1853 Kintallen, Duror, Argyll. Ages in census and age at marriage and age at death indicate an earlier birth.

Could you please post the 1851 census with Catherine and grandmother. Thanks.

A solution which requires that we ignore the mother's name on the death certificate for John MCPHEE (who married Janet STEWART) is that his parents are Alexander as stated and,  YES,  Catherine  ie, he is the John aged 20 in the 1841 census at Murshirlich, Kilmallie.  Then we have John and Effie as siblings and the two spouse of Alexander SANDS first cousins as required.

Regards,

Fred

Offline MonicaL

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Re: McPHEE family in Kilmallie
« Reply #24 on: Monday 30 March 09 18:45 BST (UK) »
This is the 1851 census I referred to - everyone showing as born in Kilmallie except Donald McPhee where no place of birth shows:

Alexander McPhee 74, Farmer (of 3 Acres)
Catharine McPhee 72
Angus McPhee 27, agr. lab.
Catharine McPhee 5, granddaughter (In addition, and remember this is a transcript of the Scottish census, shows father: Angus (?)
Duncan Cameron 29, agr. lab.
Ann Cameron 24
John Cameron 2 Months
Donald McPhee 20, visitor

Address: Muirshcorlich, Kilmallie

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline fred2derf

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Re: McPHEE family in Kilmallie
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 31 March 09 02:25 BST (UK) »
Hello Monica,

Thank you very much.  Oh   ???  Angus -  there is one aged 15 listed in that 1841 census, a sibling of John and Effy.

I'm back to the parents of John on his death certificate - Alexander McPHEE and Mary CAMERON.

His marriage certificate says 'Marriage: 21 Jul 1844; John McPhee labourer, Mursherlich and Janet, daughter of Allan Stewart, Appin'

So he was in Mursherlich when he married but that does not prove he was born there.

Is there in fact a John MCPHEE  born 1817-1821 in Kilmallie to parents Alexander and Mary CAMERON?  If this is him in 1851, then where is the John from the 1841 census (with Effy) in 1851?  In other words, did John the brother of Effy marry Janet STEWART and if not, who did that John marry?

1851
42 Carnosh, Lismore & Appin, Argyll, Scotland
John McPhee head age 29 labourer born at Appin, Argyll  &&
(Their daughter, Jane, is with Janette's mother)
Janett McPhee wife age 27 born at Appin, Argyll
Agnes McPhee daughter age 1 1/2  born at Appin, Argyll  <----  11 mo ?

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


I have this one for him in 1861:

1861
Murshiarlich Farm, Kilmallie, Argyll, Scotland
John McPhee head  age 40 labourer; born at Kilmallie, Argyll    &&
Janet McPhee wife age 36 born at Appin
Jane McPhee daughter age 13 born at Fort William
Ann McPhee daughter age 11 scholar; born at Glencoe   <----
Allan McPhee son age 9 born at Glencoe
Alexander McPhee son age 6 born at Kilmallie
Janet McPhee daughter age 4 born at Kilmallie
Donald McPhee son age 1 born at Kilmallie


Regards,

Fred

Offline sal60

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Re: McPHEE family in Kilmallie
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 31 March 09 07:26 BST (UK) »
Hi Fred and Monica,
I have the original 1851 cenus from Scotland People which normally shows relationship to the head of household.  ie Catherine is Alexander McPhee's granddaughter.  Ancestry has her as the daughter of Angus as they appear under each other but nowhere does it say daughter to Angus.  However the enmumerator does show Ann as wife to Duncan Cameron, lodger, and not as son-in-law and daughter to the head of household.
In terms of young Catherine birth place I wonder if it is Jura, Argyll, thought the first letter does look like a "D".  Perhaps a pronounciation thing?
When I first saw then entry I wondered if Catherine was an illegimate child of Ann Cameron(nee McPhee).  Then the ancestry transcription got me thinking.  There is a birth of a Catherine McPhee to an Angus and Catherine McPhee(nee McKay) at Kildalton, Argyll in 1846 and someone on the IGI has her death as 1934.
If this was "my" Angus I would need to look for the death of his first wife between 1846-1853.  The marraige entry  have reads for him reads:

OPR Vol. 100 1and 2
August - Angus Macphee, residing at Muirshieslaik, Parish of Kilmaillie and Kirsty MacTavish, residing at Gairlochy in this parish were proclaimed thrice on Sunday the 17th April last and married by the Rev. John Macintyre of Kilmonivaig at Blarous the 7th day of MAY 1851

This is only 6 weeks after the census so you can see why I favour the Angus McPhee son of Alexander and Catherine as my ancestor.  However like you I have many pieces that don't quite add up.

Angus died on 10 August 1902 and his age is given as 85 years and 2 months ie a birth about May/June 1817.  There seem to be two possibilities.

An entry for a Angus Mc Phee for July, 1817, Kilmonivaig, Argyll, son of Alexander.  No mothers name given.

An Angus Mac Phee on 18.12.1819 at Kilmallie, Argyll, son of Alexander and Catharine

The first entry seems best for the details recorded on the death certificate and the second entry seems better for the marriage details.
If it's the second entry than I had Angus siblings as Donald born about 1807, Mary born 1810(the only baptisms for these are to a Alexander McPhee and Peggy Cameron!!) but on Donalds death certificate his parents are given as Alexander and Catherine McPhee.  I think we have to realise that quite a large percentage of marriages and baptisms were never recorded particularly in the Highland area.
I think the other siblings are John 1817, Ann 1824 and Euphemia in 1828.  Ann's death certificate gives her parents as Alexander and Catherine McPhee.  I have never really chased the other two.  Just to add to the confusion there is also a Peggy Mcphee born to Alexander and Kate McPhee at Kilmallie in 1822 and one born to Alexander and Catherine McPhee at the same place in 1824!!
Angus names his children Hannah, Catherine(seems a bit funny to leave a daughter behind and name another child Catherine), Alexander, John, Angus, Christina, Colin and Donald. 
This doesn't really help Fred but it shows our possible connection.
Regards,
Sally