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Author Topic: A girl called Fortable!  (Read 7870 times)

Offline sancti

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Re: A girl called Fortable!
« Reply #18 on: Friday 27 March 09 23:35 GMT (UK) »
If James Simers married Elizabeth Murphy in 1870, why does Fortable (born around 1876) give her mothers name as Campbell?

Offline Scatza

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Re: A girl called Fortable!
« Reply #19 on: Friday 27 March 09 23:54 GMT (UK) »
This is the puzzle!!!! Did she make up her father's occupation and her mother's name? Or is what she reported at the time of her marriage correct? That is what we have been trying to work out, and the challenge has been the name Fortable! Only three Fortables have been found: (1) Fortable Campbell, who is named as the mother of Fortable Campbell Simers (the latters marriage registration to David Meikle McKenna) (2) Isabella 'Fortable'? C. Simers herself (census'), and (3) Fortable McKenna b. 1903, her daughter, who married a Boyd.

Her father was previously married to ???? (marriage registration to Elizabeth Murphy). It has been assumed that Isabella C. Simers b. abt 1849 in Lochgilphead to James Simers and Elizabeth Murphy is AKA as Fortable Simers who married David McKenna.  But is that correct? We don't know.

All very confusing unless one has been keeping tag, and the more one digs, the more confusing it seems to get. It doesn't help to have such an unusual name, and it is the name that provenance is being sought for. Any new ideas are welcome!
McMurrie/McMurray, McFegan, McClune, Coltart, Shaw, McLean - Kirkcudbright; McMurray, Simpson, Adams, Mussett South Africa


Offline sancti

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Re: A girl called Fortable!
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 28 March 09 00:12 GMT (UK) »
Has the Fortable who married in 1899 been found on the 1881 or 1891 census?

Offline Scatza

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Re: A girl called Fortable!
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 28 March 09 00:42 GMT (UK) »
Has the Fortable who married in 1899 been found on the 1881 or 1891 census?

Yes.
1881 Gabella C. Summers b. abt 1879 with her parents in S. Knapdale, Argyll
1891 Isabella C. Simers b. abt 1879 with her mother (father deceased) in Glassery, Argyll
1901 Fortable McKenna b. abt 1876 with her husband David Meikle McKenna in Glagow

Everything that is available through SP has been researched.
McMurrie/McMurray, McFegan, McClune, Coltart, Shaw, McLean - Kirkcudbright; McMurray, Simpson, Adams, Mussett South Africa

Offline JAP

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Re: A girl called Fortable!
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 28 March 09 07:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi All,

It seems that there are only two persons with the given name Fortable.
Fortable Campbell SIMERS who married and died with that name.
Fortable MCKENNA later BOYD who was registered with the given name Fortable at birth.

It is not known whether Fortable was actually the formal given name of the female SIMERS who married David MCKENNA.
No record has been found of a Fortable SIMERS prior to her marriage to David MCKENNA.
It is not known whether Fortable was actually the given name of the mother of Fortable (SIMERS) MCKENNA.
It is not known whether her father was actually a butcher.
It is not known whether CAMPBELL was actually the maiden surname of her mother.

It has been suggested that Fortable SIMERS might actually be Isabella Campbell SIMERS b 1878, South Knapdale (civil parish of Lochgilphead), daughter of James SIMERS, a gardener, & Elizabeth MURPHY.

It seems that there are a few possible lines of enquiry:

a) tracing descendants of David & Fortable MCKENNA to see whether any of them has any insight into the origin of the name.
Are descendants of Fortable (MCKENNA) BOYD known?  Do they have any clues?
Did Jane B MCKENNA, 5 months in 1901, survive?  If she did, did she have descendants?
Did David & Fortable have other children?


b) trying to trace Isabella Campbell SIMERS forward after 1891.  If she is found as a separate person, that would put paid to the theory that she is actually the same person as Fortable

c) if she is not found, then it would be worth trying to trace James SIMERS (however spelled) and Elizabeth MURPHY (however spelled) backwards to see whether there are any clues to the name in their ancestries.  And to trace their children and descendants forward to see whether any of them have any insight into the origin of the name Fortable.

In regard to c), who were the parents of each of James SIMERS and Elizabeth MURPHY?
Their marriage certificate would possibly be the most reliable source (and would also indicate James's occupation at that time).
I think this has been obtained as it was mentioned that James was a widower at his marriage to Elizabeth?
Perhaps the full details of that cert could be posted?
Is the name of his first wife known?  It might be recorded on his death cert?

Incidentally, Fortable BOYD, informant of Fortable Campbell MCKENNA's death, might have taken the info about her mother's parents from the marriage cert?  That is, she might not have speaking from personal knowledge of her maternal grandparents and perhaps not even from family folklore - just from documents found after her mother's death?

I will make a summary - in two parts - for my own benefit, of what seems to be known (and, sancti, it might answer some of your queries).  If more information comes to light I will edit the summaries.

JAP
********************

SUMMARY PART I
Facts about Fortable Campbell SIMERS who married David MCKENNA


1899
Glasgow.  David Meikle MCKENNA married Fortable Campbell SIMERS (b ca 1876).  Fortable's parents given as James SIMERS, butcher, and Fortable CAMPBELL.

1901
61 E Neilson St, Camlachie, Glasgow
MCKENNA
David M, 25, Head, "Traincer Driver", b Ballantrae Ayrshire
Fortable C, 25, Wife, b Lochgilphead, Argyllshire
Jane B, 5 months, Daughter, b Glasgow Lanarkshire

1903
MCKENNA Fortable born.

1958 19 April
MCKENNA Fortable, 58, dies.  Parents listed as James SIMERS, butcher, and Fortable CAMPBELL.  Informant is her daughter Fortable BOYD.

1982
Fortable BOYD dies.

Regards,

JAP

Offline JAP

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Re: A girl called Fortable!
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 28 March 09 08:01 GMT (UK) »
SUMMARY PART 2
Facts about Isabella Campbell SIMERS - who, it has been suggested, might be the same person as Fortable Campbell SIMERS


1870 6 June
SOMERS James (widower?) marries Elisabeth MURPHY, Middle or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrewshire (from IGI)

1871 17 March
SOMERS Patrick Robert born, Middle-East-West Parishes, Greenock, Renfrewshire, mother's name Elizabeth MURPHY (from IGI)

1872 15 July
SIMERS Margaret born South Knapdale, mother's name Elizabeth MORPHEYS (from SP & IGI)

1874 9 Feb
SIMERS James born South Knapdale, mother's name Elizabeth MORPHEY (from IGI)

1876
SIMERS Mary born South Knapdale (from SP)

1878
SIMERS Isabella Campbe born South Knapdale (from SP)

1881
South Knapdale, Lochgilphead
SUMMERS
James, Head, 36, Gardener, b Ireland
Eliza, Wife, 29, b Ireland
Patrick R, son, 10, b Renfrewshire
Margaret, daughter, 8, b South Knapdale
James, 6, son, b South Knapdale
Mary, 4, daughter, b South Knapdale
Gabella (sic), daughter, 2, b South Knapdale
William, son, 6 mths, b South Knapdale

1883
SIMERS Eliza born Lochgilphead (from SP)

1886
SIMERS Catherine born Lochgilphead (from SP)

1888 13 September
SIMERS James, gardener, dies in Lochgilphead (from SP)

1891
3 Argyle Lane, Glassary, Lochgilphead
SIMERS
Eliza, 40, Head, House Wife, b Ireland
Robert, 26, son, Driver, b Greenock Renfrewshire
James, 17,  son, Groom, b So Knapdale, Argyll
Mary, 15, daughter, General Servant, b So Knapdale, Argyll
Isabella C, 12, daughter, Scholar, b So Knapdale, Argyll
William, 10, son, Scholar, b So Knapdale, Argyll
Eliza, 7, daughter, Scholar, b So Knapdale, Argyll
Catherine, 4, daughter, b So Knapdale, Argyll

1901
3 Argyll Court, Glassary, Lochgilphead
SIMERS
Elizabeth, 50, Head,  House Keeper, b Greenock Renfrewshire
Robert, 30, Son, Forrester, b Greenock
William, 20, Son, Butchers Assistant, b South Knapdale, Argyll
Catherine, 14, Daughter, Scholar, b Lochgilphead, Argyll
and a boarder
********************

Offline sancti

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Re: A girl called Fortable!
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 28 March 09 09:44 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for taking the time to make things a lot clearer for everyone JAP.

Has anyone checked James Simers DC in 1888 to see the name of his 1st wife?

The 1st documented record of the name 'Fortable' appears to be 1899 which may just be some form of phonic corruption of Isabel.

The information that 'Fortable' gave about her parents when she married is clearly wrong, unless we are looking at the wrong family. As far as the name Campbell is concerned, why wait until your 5th child is born to give her the middle name of your first wife? I think it more likely to be named after a friend or local minister etc.

Offline Callywoods

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Re: A girl called Fortable!
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 28 March 09 13:42 GMT (UK) »
Replying to JAP's and Sancti's queries

On James Simers death cert. there is no mention of his first wife. The family seemed a bit vague about James' age - it is entered as 'about 60 years'

Here are the details of James and Elizabeth's marriage cert.

1770 On the 6th day of June at 3 Lynaloch (?) Street Greenock after banns according to the forms of the Free Church of Scotland

(Signed) James Somers, gardener, widower               aged 38
(Signed) Elizabeth Murphy, her mark, spinster              aged 32
Repwork worker

24 Market St Greenock
20 Market Street Greenock

Parents
John Somers Gardener / jobbing
Elizabeth Somers M.S. McLellan

William Murphy labourer
Elizabeth McColum (?)

(signed) James Stark minister
              Maggie Stark  witness
              Catherine Dodds witness

Sancti - I think your suggestion that Fortable could be a derivitive of Isabel a very good one.

One daughter of David and Fortable is still alive aged 97, but her memory is very poor so not able to help.
Kirkcudbrightshire : McMurray/ie, Haining, Hanning, McAdam, McClune.
Ayrshire: Livingstone
East Lothian: Anderson

Offline JAP

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Re: A girl called Fortable!
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 28 March 09 14:41 GMT (UK) »
A snippet for interest/completeness.

A Google search finds that there was a steam ship called the "Fortabelle".

It started service between New York and Bermuda in 1899.

Here is a site which mentions it:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bmuwgw/ships6.html

JAP