Adolphus Brignall conjuror

[Graham32]

Thanks for the reply Claire.
Not quite sure what you mean re Hymen?
I have traced my male line back to the early 1800's. My ancestors were originally farm workers in north Nottinghamshire. It seems that they then migrated south and lived in London. This is where Sarah Brignall met my grandfather (Richard Henry Burn) Sarah worked in service in London after growing up in Clare.
Is your husband related to Bessie?
My father always seemed a bit irked by his aunt Bessie. As I understand it when he was effectively orphaned in 1914 I don't think she was agreeable to take him in (he was born in 1911)
Interestingly, when I discovered what happened to my father's father, he disappeared to Canada in 1913 and subsequently joined the Canadian army in 1916, his attestation papers show he had a son in England (my father) in the care of his sister Ada Burn in London.
Interesting re your comment on S Dyson. My recent research leads me to believe that S Dyson is a Sarah Dyson. She was in her 80's when she died in 1944. I am wondering how I can firm up the connection with Ellen? Any further thoughts on this please?

[Redroger]

My late grandmother Melinda Ayres(nee Brignell, she is on the 1881 census along with Adolphus and the rest) always said that the Brignells were Irish.

[clairetje88]

Hi there,

I think I am getting a bit confused here. My husband's father was the second son of Bessie Naomi BRIGNALL. (According to him it was always spelt with an "a"). He told us that his aunt Sarah (Bessie Naomi's sister) was married to a Richard BOTTERILL There is a marriage record to that effect in 1926 Q4 East Riding Yorkshire. However if your Sarah died in 1914 they cannot be one and the same and that entry must be for someone completely different. Do you have a copy of the marriage certificate of your Sarah and Richard Henry BURN? My father in law at times gets confused (he's not the only one!)so when he told us this he may have got names incorrect?
Also Hymen was Ethel and Solly MARTIN's son, not Sarah's, so apologies for that.
I was previously in contact with someone who had done a lot of research into the BRIGNALL / DYSON / BLOOMFIELD families. They aren't Irish - they were from Wittersham, Kent and then Adolphus BRIGNALL moved around and ended up settling in Clare, Suffolk.

[Graham32]

Hi Claire
Definitely think your relative is getting confused.
I have both the marriage certificate and the death certificate for my grandmother Sarah Burn Originally (Brignall)
After my farther died in 1994 I spent 10 years trying to find my grandfather who left England (disappeared) in 1913 almost a year before Sarah died. By shear fluke of luck/chance found that he went to America and then Canada, joined the Canadian army in 1916 and came back to England en route to fight in France. Remarried in Kent before he left for France. Up until 6 years ago I didn't know that I also had a step grandmother!
I am quite willing to show/send you a copy of the certs' Just not sure how this is accomplished.
Perhaps you will be kind enough to advise. Also have some photos you may be interested in.

[clairetje88]

I also would have photos and certs I think you might be interested in.
I cannot share my email address with you through rootsweb but I have an ancestry account through which you can private message someone. Are you on ancestry?
You could possibly link through the posted family trees? As I said my info on Sarah is incorrect and I will change it. I apologise for the incorrect info.
Take care, Claire

[Graham32]

Hi Claire
I did have an Ancestry account. Haven't used it for some time. Just put my profile on there. Perhaps you will be kind enough to advise whether this helps or not. If it's not, maybe we need to give some further thought as to how we can successfully navigate through this one since I would be most interested in what photos you might have.

[StanleysChesterton]

I haven't gone through every post, so I am just picking up on the concept of him arriving/appearing "randomly" in Cambridge Place and I might be able to toss something into the mix there re Kent.

In my tree I have a link to Kent and the Brignalls.  I'll try to keep it coherent

Take all this as unsubstantiated with certificates - all done "for free", so not double-checked.

Obadiah Lucas of Cambridge Place (1835-1919) was born in Kent and married Caroline Whitby (1833-1914)

They had several children - in the early days a few of them were being baptised in Kent, so they were actively travelling from Cambridge Place to Tonbridge, Kent in their early married years (m. 1855). Obadiah's family were entrenched in the Tonbridge area for years before this date.

Caroline Whitby had a sister, Emma (b 1835).  Emma married John Brignell < 1856). 
Caroline Whitby had a sister, Mary Ann (b 1830). Mary Ann married James Brignell.

So two sisters married two Brignells - and their sister Caroline married Obadiah with a Kent connection.  Obadiah's income sources appear to be a bit of "traveller/salesman" style.

So you might like to investigate these people who all lived in Cambridge Place.

Somehow the two families met and intermarried and lived among each other - but also travelled back/forth to Kent, probably until Obadiah's parents died (dates unknown).

Hope that helps and isn't a bunch of red herrings.

My interest in this family is that Obadiah's grandson was my grandfather ... and I still haven't found when/where he died...
Obadiah/Caroline are my GG-grandparents.

[clairetje88]

Thank you for your insights.

The BRIGNALL family that Adolphus hailed from was based in Wittersham, Kent. According to the Census records 1851 there is a farm (which I currently do not have the name for - sorry!)

Anyhow Adolphus BRIGNALL was actually born Adolphus BOURNE(R) and his parents were James BOURNE(R) and Ann BREADS. He had an older brother James. His father died and his mother married John BRIGNALL. She was educated and home schooled her children, as well as any children she had with John BRIGNALL.

It is interesting how you have linked the families, but I am not sure how close the underlying family relationships are. Also I think Adolphus might have been a black sheep as he goes missing for the Census of 1861 (he might have enlisted but I cannot be sure the A BRIGNELL I found is him).

I don't have actual dates in front of me but they are in the earlier posts.

Hope that helps! Claire

[Redroger]

Thanks for these two most recent postings both of which i shall investigate further. A general point should be made about all spelling, A different spelling does NOT preclude relationship. I knew 2 brothers one spelt JESSUP the other JESSOP both insisted their version was correct, Research into the |uncommon surname Luffman has generated 13 variants!There was no standard spelling before the late 18th century, people recorded what they heard.