Author Topic: Dudgeon  (Read 8120 times)

Offline MairiD

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Dudgeon
« on: Monday 18 May 09 16:22 BST (UK) »
 For Ostler,

 Margaret Dudgeon married Thomas Downie (gardener) in 1810 at Torphichen, West Lothian. Three children, the middle one Janet b. 1813, Mid-Calder, Midlothian.
 MairiD.
Fife;  Annan,  Annal,  Robertson, Laing, Coutts.
E. Lothian; Ness.
W. Lothian; Cuthbertson.
Argyll; Walker, Campbell.

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Offline ostler

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Re: Dudgeon
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 15:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Mairi,
Do you have parents for Margaret?
All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler (and all variations!!)

Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)

England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon

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Offline MairiD

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Re: Dudgeon
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 23:40 BST (UK) »
 Yes, Robert Dudgeon, (weaver), and Janet White.
 Margaret died in 1863 at 6, Salisbury St., Edinburgh.
 MairiD.
Fife;  Annan,  Annal,  Robertson, Laing, Coutts.
E. Lothian; Ness.
W. Lothian; Cuthbertson.
Argyll; Walker, Campbell.

Offline ostler

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Re: Dudgeon
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 20 May 09 11:36 BST (UK) »
I don't have them either... any more information on Robert Dudgeon?
All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler (and all variations!!)

Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)

England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon

Offline MairiD

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Re: Dudgeon
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 20 May 09 14:09 BST (UK) »
 No I don't.
Mairi.
Fife;  Annan,  Annal,  Robertson, Laing, Coutts.
E. Lothian; Ness.
W. Lothian; Cuthbertson.
Argyll; Walker, Campbell.

Offline Downieabz

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Re: Dudgeon
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 24 January 10 23:31 GMT (UK) »
For Ostler,

 Margaret Dudgeon married Thomas Downie (gardener) in 1810 at Torphichen, West Lothian. Three children, the middle one Janet b. 1813, Mid-Calder, Midlothian.
 MairiD.
Thomas Downie and Margaret Dudgeon actually had at least seven children: John, Janet, Robert, Charles, James Jane and Thomas. Their eldest son John was a well known horticulturist and market gardener who had a market garden close to where Edinburgh Zoo is today. I've also tracked sons Charles born 1821 Moffat who was a Teacher of English and who died in 1863 in Canongate Edinburgh and James born about 1825 place so far unknown and who died at 6 Salisbury Street Edinburgh on 19 April 1858. Neither was married.

I've not been able to track Thomas Downie back as he appears to have died before 1855 - he was certainly listed as deceased on James's death certificate in 1858.

Ian Downie (not related), Aberdeen

Offline MairiD

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Re: Dudgeon
« Reply #6 on: Monday 25 January 10 22:23 GMT (UK) »
Hello Ian,

Yes, I did find more children after my post but forgot to update my findings here. Thank you for correcting me.  I knew about John becoming a well-known and respected nurseryman.

I found John, b. 1811,  Janet, b.1813,  Margaret, b. 1816,  Robert, b. 1818,  Charles b. 1821,  Jane b.c.1826,  Thomas b.c. 1828.

I obviously missed James.  Will have to go and find his birth date.  Presumably he did not survive long.

 An obituary states  'but the fact that his (John's) mother had been left with six children in addition to himself and that stern necessity had made him the bread-winner for the family, he entered upon the new post with characteristic energy, and brought up his brothers and sisters until they were able to shift for themselves.'

Thomas died in 1832 at Canaan, between Morningside and the Grange.

John's father's employer gave him (John)  the position of head gardener at South Bank (House) at Canaan.

Have you got a special interest in these Downies?

MairiD
Fife;  Annan,  Annal,  Robertson, Laing, Coutts.
E. Lothian; Ness.
W. Lothian; Cuthbertson.
Argyll; Walker, Campbell.

Offline Downieabz

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Re: Dudgeon
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 26 January 10 09:17 GMT (UK) »
You obviously failed to spot in my message that James died at the same place as his mother, 6 Salisbury Place, Edinburgh. Like you, I haven't found any record of his birth but his death certificate proves that he was a son of Thomas Downie and Margaret Dudgeon:

1858 Deaths Edinburgh 685/5 no 151
James Downie .... Single
died 1858 April Nineteeth ... 6 Salisbury St Edinburgh male age 32 years
Father Thomas Downie Gardener deceased
Mother Margaret Dudgeon
cause of death Disease of Heart
buried at Grange Cemetery
informant Charles Downie brother

This is only a partial transcription from a Downie friend who has a seat in New Register House and sends me all the Downies she finds. He was probably born in Moffat in about 1825 and could have been a twin of Jane, but I haven't found him in the 1851 Census so far - I rely mostly on FreeCEN. I don't know whether my friend missed out James's occupation or whether it was not on the certificate.

I have a general interest in all Downies since that is my surname. John is a relatively famous Downie, having a street named after him (Downie Terrace, Corstorphine, where he died on 5 November 1892). I have a website at http://www.downieabz.org.uk where I have information about my own family plus a number of more famous Downies. There is room for an entry on John Downie!

There is an outside chance that this family is related to mine since my ancestors moved from the East of Fife to the Edinburgh area and then Juniper Green, and there are some gardeners among them, including my GG Grandfather David Downie, born 10 March 1821 at Penicuik. Thomas is not a name which appears in earlier generations of the family but David had a brother Thomas born 12 October 1822 at Currie and there were several Thomas Downies in later generations.

I would be very interested to know what further information you have on Thomas Downie, John's father as I would like to be able to connect him to other Downie families I have in my database. I have John's obituary from The Scotsman but it gives no details of his origins - I hope you can give me a transcript (and the source) of the obituary you have, plus the source of your information about the date and place of his death (if different).

I'd be glad to exchange information with you about this family and will PM you my email address.

Ian

Offline MairiD

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Re: Dudgeon and Downie
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 26 January 10 22:19 GMT (UK) »
Hello Ian,

Thank you for your prompt reply.  At present I prefer communication directly through this site, though appreciate e-mail can be easier.

All the information you gave about 'James' is in fact that for Jane Downie.  The name has been misread.  It also has 'F' for female in the appropriate column.  I found that DC in the summer and have just looked at it again to check my notes.

Thomas Downie died in 1832.  My source was the OPRs(Deaths and Burials.)  He was a gardener at Canaan, Parish of St. Cuthbert, and died of cancer, aged 48.  That gives his birthdate as being around 1784.

I looked at a span of years and could only find one BC (OPRs) that was a possible match.

1784 John Downie Sailor in Leith and Margaret Jameson Sp. A S N. Thomas born 25th, bapd. 29th 1784  Witn. William Lowrie sailor in Leith, and Thomas Lowrie Gardiner (sic) there.

Did Lowrie morph to Downie I wonder. The names fit the family pattern--Thomas-John--Thomas -John,  Margaret too. The possible grandfather was a gardener, though that was a common occupation. The birth date fits. South Leith was far from West Lothian but then John was a sailor.
John and Margaret Jameson married in 1781.  To date I have found only Thomas, b. 1784 and Lyllias,
 b. 1786. as issue.

I have seen the other 'Downie gardeners' at Juniper Green and Currie but have not found a link with John Downie, latterly of Corstorphine.

The source of my quote about him was 'The Gardeners' Chronicle,  Dec. 1892.  The agreement I signed when obtaining it means I cannot give you a transcript.  The obituary in the Scotsman was similar however.

My brick walls concerned the later lives of James, b. 1844 and John, b. 1848, Edinburgh, the third and fourth sons of John Downie, (1811-1892) the nurseryman and his first wife, Alison Barrie.  They helped their father in the early days.  They may have emigrated.

Regards,
MairiD.


Fife;  Annan,  Annal,  Robertson, Laing, Coutts.
E. Lothian; Ness.
W. Lothian; Cuthbertson.
Argyll; Walker, Campbell.