Palgrave Frith c 1635

[bettyespana]

I have recently found Palgrave Frith c 1635 who married Richard Girdlestone in 1656.

This couple lived in Thornage,Norfolk & would be my 8xGt Grandparents.
They had a son John b.1662

This is all I know about them & would like to know more if possible,i.e occupations,children etc.

Any info will be appreciated

Regards
bettyespana

[lucymags]

This is a very old thread which I came across when googling for info on this very person (via the Girdlstones). She has caused me multiple headaches and taken 2 days of my life, and I still don't have the full story.

To cut a VERY long story short, I have put together this profile for her on Geni:
https://www.geni.com/people/Palgrave-or-Harwin-Palgrave-Girdlestone/6000000049007042821
and this is her husband:
https://www.geni.com/people/Richard/6000000049006695892?through=6000000049007042821

The easiest way to find your way around is to create a (free) account with Geni, if you don't already have one - then you can see the info and sources for the offspring, etc. as well.

The one probably dodgy assumption I made somewhat reluctantly, was creating a Richard as one of their sons, as BMD doesn't show a birth record for him and I was trying to make sense of a whole lot of user-submitted genealogies on FamilySearch, some patently incorrect. However on the burial record of the father, it does explicitly say "Senr", which seemed to suggest that there may have been a son called Richard.

As you can see, there have been multiple misspellings or variant spellings of Palgrave. The transcription of her marriage record says “Pagrane Fish”, her burial record gives the name “Harwin Pagrave Gurdleston”, and the only other records relating to her that I’ve been able to find so far have been based on user genealogies on FamilySearch and therefore not reliable. (To complicate matters, Richard and Palgrave also named one of their daughters Palgrave, which has led to further confusion.)

IF anyone has any access to original records in the general area of Letheringsett, Baconsthorpe, Thornage, Bale, or Barningham, it would be great to shed some light on the mystery of Palgrave Frith/Fish/whatever.

I've discovered and written to a Palgrave Society, based in North Barningham, as that name (as a surname) seems to have been common in that area.

To the OP, if you're still following this thread: where did you obtain your information from, and have you anything further to add at this point?

[bettyespana]

This is a very old thread which I came across when googling for info on this very person (via the Girdlstones). She has caused me multiple headaches and taken 2 days of my life, and I still don't have the full story.

To cut a VERY long story short, I have put together this profile for her on Geni:
https://www.geni.com/people/Palgrave-or-Harwin-Palgrave-Girdlestone/6000000049007042821
and this is her husband:
https://www.geni.com/people/Richard/6000000049006695892?through=6000000049007042821

The easiest way to find your way around is to create a (free) account with Geni, if you don't already have one - then you can see the info and sources for the offspring, etc. as well.

The one probably dodgy assumption I made somewhat reluctantly, was creating a Richard as one of their sons, as BMD doesn't show a birth record for him and I was trying to make sense of a whole lot of user-submitted genealogies on FamilySearch, some patently incorrect. However on the burial record of the father, it does explicitly say "Senr", which seemed to suggest that there may have been a son called Richard.

As you can see, there have been multiple misspellings or variant spellings of Palgrave. The transcription of her marriage record says “Pagrane Fish”, her burial record gives the name “Harwin Pagrave Gurdleston”, and the only other records relating to her that I’ve been able to find so far have been based on user genealogies on FamilySearch and therefore not reliable. (To complicate matters, Richard and Palgrave also named one of their daughters Palgrave, which has led to further confusion.)

IF anyone has any access to original records in the general area of Letheringsett, Baconsthorpe, Thornage, Bale, or Barningham, it would be great to shed some light on the mystery of Palgrave Frith/Fish/whatever.

I've discovered and written to a Palgrave Society, based in North Barningham, as that name (as a surname) seems to have been common in that area.

To the OP, if you're still following this thread: where did you obtain your information from, and have you anything further to add at this point?

It is quite some time since I did any of my genealogy & am only recently getting back in to it.
I will get back to you shortly with a PM.
Betty

[amondg]

Monumental Inscriptions at Letheringsett
Richard Girdlestone died 7 November 1724, Palgrave (?) Girdlestone died 17 July 1710..  Updated keyed in wrong date the first time.
single stone.
Ref Norfolk Family History Society.

Morston All Saints, Marriages
Richard Girdlestone married Mary Shorting 1701,  transcribers unable to read the date

Warham All Saints, Marriages
Richard Girdlestone of Saxlingham married Barbara Loose 4 January 1710

[lucymags]

Thank you Betty - I will get back to you via PM once I've had time to absorb and compare some of the info you've provided. There's definitely overlap with the tree I've been building!

Thank you very much also amondg - also interesting and valuable information. Can I just clarify something with you, please? Does "single stone" mean that both of those people were buried together and had the same headstone or memorial? I found a record on Freereg "Burial date 17 Jul 1710, Burial person forename Richard, Burial person surname GIRDLESTON, Register note Senr", which I had taken to be Palgrave's husband. Death in 1724 would have made him 89 years old... Not impossible, but unusual in those days I would think?

Incidentally, I found this website which gives an interesting explanation of the origin of the name http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Girdlestone "This is a locational name of East Anglian origins which derives from a now apparently "lost" hamlet near Holt in North Norfolk. The original spelling would seem to have been "Gridel's Tun", an Old English compound which translates as "The Farm of one called Gridel"." and also mentions that "The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Richard Girdlestone, which was dated September 1st 1571, married at Kelling Church, Norfolk."

Anyway I will use what I have now to see if I can come to any further conclusions and update the thread with my findings.

[amondg]

Both names are on the same memorial.
The transcription does not give relationship, and it has been there for 292 years, 306 if the 1710 death of Palgrave was put there first.
Is it possible the Richard is the son you are looking for?.

Added
I looked at the original register
Pagrave wife of Richard Girdlestone was buried 14 April 1705.***
Richard Girdleston Snr was buried 17 July 1710
Richard Girdlestone was buried 9 November 1724. This matches the death date of 7 November 1724 and would appear to be the son of Richard and Palgrave.
The Palgrave mentioned that died July 1710 is not in the Letheringsett register
could this be the daughter?
I updated my original entry I was looking at another Richard Girdlestone who died age 60, 26 January 1772 at Blakeney.

 
You can see the original registers yourself.
Type familysearch Letheringsett Parish Records. You will get a Norfolk Genealogy page. Scroll down to the list of transcriptions, look for FS PR's, move over to burials and click on it. When the family search page comes up do not enter a name scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on scroll through 293,156 images. Don't get alarmed they are divided by parish, click on Letheringsett. Chose the one that says Baptism/Marriages and Burials.
Image 37 covers 1705-1710 image 39 has 1724 burials.   

[lucymags]

Thanks again amondg.

After working my way through the info given by Betty in her PM, based on the actual records available, and after going round in circles until I tied my brain up in knots, I decided to get rid of one of the Richards.

Would it be likely that a son but not husband would have been buried with Palgrave? Also, the record of her burial on FreeReg records "Burial date 14 Apr 1705, Burial person forename    Harwin Pagrave, Burial person surname GURDLESTON" (wife of Richard Gurdleston). So now I am more confused than ever, wondering why the date on her memorial would differ from the record.

I'm still not sure about what I've currently recorded, but am too tired to work on this any further at this point.
(FYI, Richard's timeline looks like this atm: https://www.geni.com/people/Richard/6000000049006695892#/tab/timeline.)

p.s. Will just add this about Richard's parents from Betty:
"Richard's parents were Thomas Girdlestone b.1604 Thornage & Elizabeth Pyle 1610
They married 1631
Children: Richard 1638-1710
Info LDS/G.R/Girdlestones"
Betty - what does the last line refer to?
I've now noted the different birthdate for Richard, but haven't added parents as yet. At least one of the IGI family trees I found on FamilySearch does show those parents, but I prefer to have something pointing to an original record if possible.

[amondg]

When you get time the original register is the key.
Richard senior was buried 1710
Pagrave was buried 1705
Richard was buried 1724.

[bettyespana]

Thanks again amondg.

After working my way through the info given by Betty in her PM, based on the actual records available, and after going round in circles until I tied my brain up in knots, I decided to get rid of one of the Richards.

Would it be likely that a son but not husband would have been buried with Palgrave? Also, the record of her burial on FreeReg records "Burial date 14 Apr 1705, Burial person forename    Harwin Pagrave, Burial person surname GURDLESTON" (wife of Richard Gurdleston). So now I am more confused than ever, wondering why the date on her memorial would differ from the record.

I'm still not sure about what I've currently recorded, but am too tired to work on this any further at this point.
(FYI, Richard's timeline looks like this atm: https://www.geni.com/people/Richard/6000000049006695892#/tab/timeline.)

p.s. Will just add this about Richard's parents from Betty:
"Richard's parents were Thomas Girdlestone b.1604 Thornage & Elizabeth Pyle 1610
They married 1631
Children: Richard 1638-1710
Info LDS/G.R/Girdlestones"
Betty - what does the last line refer to?
I've now noted the different birthdate for Richard, but haven't added parents as yet. At least one of the IGI family trees I found on FamilySearch does show those parents, but I prefer to have something pointing to an original record if possible.

If you mean Info/LDS/GR/Girdlestones
This is where I have recorded on my notes where I got the info from LDS = Latter Day Saints
Genes Re-United(which is where I have my tree & have shared info with others) & Girdlestones is  from a Girdlestone who approached me as having a match with members in my tree.
Betty