Lovell Family

[welshspencer]

Hi all

I am trying to find more infomation for my friend whom is form the Lovell Family her great Grand father was henry lovell  c 1862 and his wife was Ellen, her grandparents were Joshua and Lily

they had the followign children
Carnation 1886 ? Bridgend
Joshua 1888 Cardiff
Susannah 1891 Cardiff
Lementina 1893 Cardiff
William 1896 Cardiff
Henry 1897  Cardiff

I have them in the 1901 census but trying to find whom henry's father was and how they fit in tot the Slack Lovell family

Kind Regards

[heywood]

Here they are in 1891 where Carnation is transcribed as Vincas. The writing is pretty bad anyway.

1891 RG12; Piece: 4399; Folio 130; Page 45

30 Daisy Street Canton

Harry Lovell 35 yrs Cutler b Wales Cardiff
Helen 25 yrs b England Cheltenham
Vincas 5 yrs b Wales Bridgend
John (Joshua ?) 3 yrs b Cardiff
Susan 5 months b Cardiff
Windsor Gibbs boarder 40 yrs b Cadoxton Glamorgan
Ann Gibbs boarder 35 yrs b Cefn Glamorgan

I think Harry's age could be 25 but and the Gibbs birthplaces are not too good either- have taken them from transcription.
I also think that perhaps Henry's birthplace in 1901 was different  will have to recheck.

heywood

[heywood]

There may be something on here to help your friend

http://romanygenes1.com/#/welsh-folki/4531499185

[welshspencer]

thanks heywood

and in the 1901 he is 39. so not sure if he was now born 1862 or 1866

[RomanyRoser]

These are members of the LOVELL family I have found- Roser
LOVELL  Enoch 30 Travelling Brazier Birmingham, Emma Lovell 25 Worcs, Keomi Lovell 3 Wednesfield Heath, Cashmere Lovell 5wks Wednesfield Heath (Gipsy Tents, Pit mounds on east side of Buggins Lane, Wednesfield, Staffordshire 1861Census)
LOVELL (Ref PAGE 53; 77 “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald,  published late 1930s)
LOVELL 14 Hawker Other Manchester Lancs , Mary Gray 50 Hawker Other Boston, Lincs (Tryanty (Vearous Place Travg Caravan And Tent Leftwich, Cheshire  RG11 3523 50 21   
LOVELL Ann Lear 1857 17 May Eli and Caroline (Higgler) of Waldron Waldron Sussex (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Celly 69 wid Peterborough, Speedwelly Lovell 35 Clothes peg mkr Gloucestershire
LOVELL Charles 1825 4 Dec William & Sarah (Horse Keeper) , St John, Croydon, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Christopher  (Ref PAGE 116; “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald,  published late 1930s)
LOVELL Cornelious (Ref PAGE 116; “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald,  published late 1930s)
LOVELL Dinah 1836 11 Dec aged 93 A gipsy  Culham, - (Burial Berkshire, Ref Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Family (Ref Journal of the Romany and Traveller Family History Society)
LOVELL George 1827 24 Oct William & Sarah (Horse Dealer)  , St John, Croydon, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL George 1836 18 Mar Francis & Elizabeth (Tinman) , St John, Croydon, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Henry 1835 5 Jul John & Union Aged 5, (Brazier) Morden, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Jack (Ref PAGE111; “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald,  published late 1930s)
LOVELL James 1849 1 Apr William & Sarah (Horse Dealer)  , St John, Croydon, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL James 20 Pig Keeping Kensington Mx, Athaliah Lovell 21 Farnham Surrey (Waste Land on west side of Latimer Road called the Gipsies Encampment, in Tents, Hammersmith London Mx 1861 Census)
LOVELL James 35 Lic Hawker Thornbury Glos ,Lousea Lovell  28  Thornbury Glos , Cornelius Smith 14 Female/Hawkers Asst  N/K (Wainlode Hill Road Norton Glos RG11 2530 89 21)   
LOVELL Joseph 1843 28 Aug John & Naomi (Brazier) Mersthampshire, (Gypsies Passing Through), Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Limpady 1825 18 Sep John & Unity (Stranger) Banstead, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Louis (Ref PAGE 91; “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald,  published late 1930s)
LOVELL Mary Ann 1866 13 Jun William & Mary Ann In Tent (Chair Mender) Ashstead, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Mehannah 1801 13 Sep Hezekiah & Hannah (She nee Draper) (Travelling Man) Sandhurst, Kent (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Mignonette 1897 8 Jan Joseph and Hannah (Labourer) St Michael, Barnes, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Nixi (Ref PAGE 110;  “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald,  published late 1930s)
LOVELL Quinasia 1842 17 Apr George & Isabella Of Shutford, (Gypsey) Hook Norton Oxfordshire
LOVELL Rose (Ref PAGE111; “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald,  published late 1930s)
LOVELL Sampson 1903 28 Oct Joseph and Hannah (Labourer) St Michael, Barnes, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Samuel 1877 4 May William (deceased) & Mary Ann Chair caner St Trinity, Barnes, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Sandi (Ref PAGE 87; “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald,  published late 1930s)
LOVELL Savaina (Ref PAGE 77; 83; 99; “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald,  published late 1930s)
LOVELL Struddveras 26 Travelling Brazier Aldbourne Worc, Cinderella Lovell 20 Bath Somerset,
LOVELL William (Ref PAGE 116; “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald,  published late 1930s)
LOVELL William 1834 15 Aug Francis & Elizabeth (Tinman) , St John, Croydon, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL   Caroline   20   S   Barnes   Henry LEE   Horse dealer   AUSTINS John   1872 16 Sep   St Mary, Barnes, SRY
LOVELL/LOVELS Ambi(Ref Journal of the Romany and Traveller Family History Society)
LOVELL/LOVELS Johnny(Ref Journal of the Romany and Traveller Family History Society)
LOVELL/LOVELS Matilda(Ref Journal of the Romany and Traveller Family History Society)
LOVELL/LOVELS Rose(Ref Journal of the Romany and Traveller Family History Society)
LOVELL/LOVELS Savaina(Ref Journal of the Romany and Traveller Family History Society)

[ricky1]

Hi

Better link it to this

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,384765.new.html#new

otherwise we will be duplicating everything

ricky

[welshspencer]

Thank you RomanyRoser

still having trouble finding Henrys Parents. but am sure most of these will eventualy link in..

Thanks Ricky for linking it in......


Russell

[alisonjogden]

Re 'romanyroser's' list - a few notes (I have put this info on romany genes):

John Lovell married Union Lee, gypsies, married Finchley 1819 - from Pallot's marriage index.
Children:
LOVELL Henry 1835 5 Jul John & Union Aged 5, (Brazier) Morden, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Joseph 1843 28 Aug John & Naomi  (UNION)(Brazier) Merstham, (Gypsies Passing Through), Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Limpady (also known as Caroline) 1825 18 Sep John & Unity (UNION) (Stranger) Banstead, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through)
LOVELL Mignonette 1897 8 Jan Joseph and Hannah (Bennett) (Labourer) St Michael, Barnes, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through) (- John & Union had a daughter Mignonette as well but this Mignonette is the daughter of Joseph above born 1843 named after her Aunt and Grandaughter to John and Union).
LOVELL Sampson 1903 28 Oct Joseph and Hannah (Labourer) St Michael, Barnes, Surrey (Gypsies Passing Through) (Grandson of John & Union)
LOVELL   Caroline (CARLINA)   20   S   Barnes   Henry LEE   Horse dealer   AUSTINS John   1872 16 Sep   St Mary, Barnes, SRY (Carlina was the daughter of the older Mignonette Lovell and Grandaughter of John & Union).

[alisonjogden]

I am hoping to find out more about the ancestry of John Lovell & Union Lee (gypsies)

John Lovell b. abt 1797 ‘Northmin, Herefordshire.’ (?North Mymms, Herts). D.7/2/1879 Barnes, Surrey. Married 10 Aug 1819 St. Mary's Finchley to Union Lee b. abt 1797 Enfield, Here/tfordshire (Middx?) & D. 29/1/1880 Barnes. These gypsies settled Barnes in 1870s.
John & Union’s children were mostly baptized Kent & Surrey: Woodmansterne, Godstone, Mertstham, Banstead & Morden.
Druscilla (Duritia) 1817 – 1867 (m. Edmund North, son of Emanuel & Cinementa Hearn)
Letitia 1823 (Married John Powell)
Limpedy (Limpetty Caroline Catherine) 1825 – 1915 (m. Henry Whitby)
Henry 1831 (m. Catherine)
Mignonette  1833 –1916  (not married, father of her child Carlina, Henry Lee)
Britannia  1834 – 1915 (m. Humphrey (Humphries) Lee, son of Belcher & Lydia Lee)
Duriah  1838 – 1912 (m. Mary Ann Simpson)
James  1845 – (not married)
Joseph  1845 – 1927 (m. Hannah Bennett (not gypsy))
Robert  1848  (m. Georgina Noakes (not gypsy)

No parents listed on the marriage entry for John & Union .
Possible clues: Britannia married Humphrey Lee and as gypsies. Is it possible Belcher Lee and Union Lee were siblings or cousins?

I found references to a John Chilcott & 4 daughters, who married; Union to Charles Lee; Caroline to Tom Lee; Florence to Wester Boswell; and Shuri to Taiso Young. I can’t find out when this was. As this Union married a Lee could they be the parents of our Union?
For John Lovell the only link is that there is a James Lovell 20 and wife Athelia in Hammersmith 1861. Athelia witnessed the wedding of Duriah Lovell to Mary Ann Simpson 23 Feb 1862 (and a marriage of Noel Lee to Maria Lee on the same day) so there might be a connection. This James could be John’s nephew.