John MAVIN and his wife Mary Ann (nee BROWN)

[Tickettyboo]

I have these people in my tree, am as certain as any of us can be of the line back to them.
I can trace John MAVIN further back  but am having a huge problem with Mary Ann BROWN.

Dates and references below, my conclusion from those is that she was born c 1816 to 1821, somewhere near
 to  North Sunderland in Northumberland.

I would be grateful for any suggestions/opinions/ online references etc that anyone could give to help me trace her back.
I can't find a definite record of her in the 1841 census, nor a baptism record for her, not even a hint of a sibling .

Haven't been able to find a reference to a John BROWN occupation - tailor who, according to her marriage cert, was her father.

Any and all straws will be gleefully clutched at, I have been looking for her for quite some time and keep putting her to one side and going back to her to see if there is anything I have missed. I am based in Canada so personal visits to archives etc are not possible.

Mary Ann MAVIN (nee BROWN)

Died Q1 1885  not yet got the certificate  (ref: Q1 1885 Belford 10b 268)
age at death registered as 68


Census 1881  (ref: Class: RG11; Piece: 5127; Folio: 86; Page: 25)

age given as 63, residence Spindlestone, birthplace given as Durham, Sth Sunderland


Census 1871 (ref:Class: RG10; Piece: 5178; Folio: 90; Page: 24;)

age given as 54, residence Spindlestone, birth place given as North Sunderland


Census 1861 (ref: Class: RG9; Piece: 3883; Folio: 64B; Page: 7;)

age given as 44,residence Spindlestone, birthplace given as Northumberland
(then another word possibly Glanton but also possibly just duplicated from her husband's entry)


Census 1851 (ref:Class: HO107; Piece: 2420; Folio: 45; Page: 27;)

age given as 32, residence Spindlestone, birthplace given as Durham, Sunderland


Marriage to John MAVIN, (ref: Q2 1842 Belford 25 265)
North Sunderland Parish Church - parish register image can be viewed at:

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=imageBrowser;c=1309819;w=168

navigate to page 5, last entry on page.

Age given as 'Full' , residence as North Sunderland, occupation servant

That says her Father's name was John BROWN ( oh 'that' narrows it down !) and his
occupation was 'Tailor'  as I interpret the writing anyway, alternative interpretations welcome.

1841 census John MAVIN (ref: Class: HO107; Piece 818; Book: 20; Civil Parish: Bamburgh; Folio: 13; Page: 21

residence North Sunderland, in the home of a family called THOMPSON,( two of whom I think are the witnesses at John and Mary Ann's wedding), occupation joiner, born in the county of Northumberland
 

Unable to find a definite entry for Mary Ann BROWN in the same area, as a 'courting couple'
 I assume they would not have been too far from each other in the year prior to their marriage.


Baptism for Mary Ann BROWN ? Have trawled through various parishes close to North Sunderland without success so far
(I believe that North Sunderland parish church was not built until not long before her marriage in 1842)

I understand that parts of what we now view as Northumberland were historically classed as Durham way back then, so I do believe that any of the above references to Sunderland are to the North Sunderland in the Bamburgh area, rather than the town of Sunderland further south.

Apologies for the length of the post but if I am asking for help I try to give as much info as possible. If anyone has read this far without falling asleep .. thanks for looking :-)

Boo

[Michael Dixon]

 
I'll use you first name, Ticketty... rather than Boo, your second name.

 As Anglican church at North Sunderland did not start until early 1830s, Mary Ann could not have been bapt there.

North Sunderland lay within the Parish of Bamburgh. So, assuming - for the moment- that she/her folk were of the Anglican faith, she was likely to have been baptised at St Aidan's, Bamburgh Parish Church. 

If you have searched Bamburgh bapts and not found her, I suggest you consider a different religious denomination.

E.g. There was a Presbyterian church in North Sunderland from late 1700s.

( North Sunderland/Bamburgh area was never part of the County Durham enclaves that were collectively called North Durham- a situation that ceased in 1844)

Trade Directories of 1827 and 1850 list no Brown as Tailor in Belford/Bamburgh/North Sunderland area.


Michael Dixon

[Tickettyboo]

Hello Michael

and thanks for taking the time to reply.
I had wondered about other denominations, but they are not so easily come by on the web. Will ask at the LDS family history centre here in Edmonton and see if I can order the films, will also order the films for Bamburgh, I have only checked on Bishops Transcripts and there is always an outside chance that one or two were missed from the originals.

I had tried the trade directories, but as you say, no John Brown listed as a tailor.

I will keep plugging away at it, I never give up, though this one is proving to be particularly difficult.

oh btw, Tickettyboo is the entire name and Boo is the usual shortened version :-)

thanks again

Boo

I'll use you first name, Ticketty... rather than Boo, your second name.

 As Anglican church at North Sunderland did not start until early 1830s, Mary Ann could not have been bapt there.

North Sunderland lay within the Parish of Bamburgh. So, assuming - for the moment- that she/her folk were of the Anglican faith, she was likely to have been baptised at St Aidan's, Bamburgh Parish Church. 

If you have searched Bamburgh bapts and not found her, I suggest you consider a different religious denomination.

E.g. There was a Presbyterian church in North Sunderland from late 1700s.

( North Sunderland/Bamburgh area was never part of the County Durham enclaves that were collectively called North Durham- a situation that ceased in 1844)

Trade Directories of 1827 and 1850 list no Brown as Tailor in Belford/Bamburgh/North Sunderland area.


Michael Dixon

[Michael Dixon]

Boo,

Oh btw you are also a city centre pub in Dundee, Scotland, but there you spell yourself Tickety Boo. ( Maybe Elbow Room a more apt name, cos that's about all it has ! )

Next time I am at the County Record Office ( at Woodhorn, near Ashington) I will look up that North Sunderland Presbyterian records for her baptism.

Oh btw(2) yesterday I tried filling the 1827-1850 Trade Directory gap... i.e. 1844 and 1847... still no sign of her tailor (or sailor) father !

Have you seen Mary Brown, the "F.S." (femae servant) in North Sunderland on C1841
page 818/20 6-6 , 15 pages separated from John Mavin ?

Ages on 1841, unlike other censuses are rounded down to the unit of 5 yrs ( So 20 yrs, if that is what is written, then her age could have been 24,23,22,21 or 20.)

And "N" to indicate that she was not born in the county ( of Northumberland) That could mean any of the 50 counties of England, other than Northumberland. But perhaps more realistically this Mary ( the enumerator was not big on second names!) was born in one of the three County Durham enclaves that lay within the boundaries of Northumberland ( Norhamshire-south west of Berwick, Islandshire, area around Holy Island and Bedlingtonshire in south east of county) or even dare I say it in Sunderland in "mainland" County Durham. But of course might not be your Mary Ann at all.


The residences for the Mavins were IN Waren Mills, a very small community that lay WITHIN the boundary of the Township of Spindlestone, that lay within the Parish of North Sunderland, which got it's independence from the "mother" Parish of BamBurgh.
Here in modern times the admin unit of Township is not used ( as I think it still is inCanada ?  and US)

Interesting to not that John/Mary Ann, each with a father called John, did not name a son John !


Michael Dixon
Newcastle

[Tickettyboo]

Hi Michael

The look up offer is very kind of you, thank you!

I do have a note of the Mary Brown, female/farm servant in the 1841 census, she is on my list as  'possible but no other point of reference to confirm or deny'. The note that she was born outside of the county could indicate that she was born in Sunderland, south of the Tyne but my aged aunt (now sadly no longer with us) looked slightly horrified at the thought and insisted that it was North Sunderland. I did look in Sunderland, but will backtrack and give it another go to see if there is anything I may have missed.
 It is difficult though, as many people said they were born in a particular place, which often turned out to be the first place they remembered living, rather than where they were born.

Thanks also for looking further at directories, I am more inclined to believing that John Brown's occupation, as written in the record, says Tailor but Sailor is also a possibility.

Nice explanation of the admin structure, thanks  - I have been to Waren Mills, many years ago, and yes it was a very small community!

thanks for your help and interest, its appreciated.

btw I am grateful to them for not naming a son  John. I think I may just have cornered the market in Johns as it is ( along with Williams, Isabellas and Mary Anns)

btw (2) The Ticketyboo  (without the double t) family do not appear anywhere in my tree as far as I can tell. My friend, Gannincannylike  (answers to the shortened version of 'Gannin') , does have a tenuous link to them though, so I will pass on the info about the pub  :-)

Boo

[2zpool]

I looked at my index for North Sunderland which also includes Bamburgh, Beadnell, and Lucker and no Mary Ann Brown.  Only Mary was a Mary Jane baptised at Lucker in 1822 and a Isabella Mary in 1817 Bamburgh.

Janis

[jora]

She's not in Warenford or Belford Presbyterian either.

[Tickettyboo]

Thanks very much Janis.
Though you haven't found her, knowing where she " isn't  " is a big help!

Boo

I looked at my index for North Sunderland which also includes Bamburgh, Beadnell, and Lucker and no Mary Ann Brown.  Only Mary was a Mary Jane baptised at Lucker in 1822 and a Isabella Mary in 1817 Bamburgh.

Janis

[Tickettyboo]

and thank you too Jora.
That really is helpful

Boo

She's not in Warenford or Belford Presbyterian either.