John MAVIN and his wife Mary Ann (nee BROWN)

[Michael Dixon]

 Boo,

 Only Snippets.............

 Natives will call North Sunderland just Sunderland. ( Early maps in the communities.northumberland.gov.uk web site - in "Plans" and "Ordnance Maps" sections show it as just Sunderland - with no Seahouses... then the progressive naming as North Sunderland and Seahouses outgrowing it !

All censuses call for completion of " Where Born" column... not a "birth place" column. Early Enumerators were instructed to enter ( from info received from household) either " Parish of Birth" or " Place of Birth".  New or communities with no "sway" were not usually entered.

Michael Strawclutcher.

[Tickettyboo]

Hi Michael

Thanks for the straws :-) Looking through the Bishop's Transcripts of the registers for the area around there,I had noted that Sunderland was used as the place name.

Don't really grasp the fine points of the difference between "Where Born" and "Birth Place" but nuances of officialdom's ( as in the census form compliers) terms have never been a strong point of mine - on any continent!
Though I do understand what you are saying about the entry the enumerator made in the required column, and accept that it  could be a wider area than a tiny hamlet -  or Granny's bedroom as the case may have been.

I have started to look again at the BT's for the  'other' Sunderland, have spotted a few Browns  ( surprise!) but not a baptism for a Mary Ann with a father called  John as yet. Was slightly confused as the LDS seem to have uploaded a whole section of Wallsend parish in the middle of the Sunderland ones and not all years seem to be there for Sunderland. Will keep looking.

Thanks again

Boo

[Michael Dixon]

Boo,

 So you looking in Sunderland ( Co Durham) BTs.!

 You can hardly ignore the two Parishes of Monkwearmouth and Bishopwearmouth. The town of Sunderland ( a City since 1992) was comprised of parts of three Parishes

"The town of Sunderland is situated on the River Wear. It includes the whole of the Parish of Sunderland and a portion of that (parish) of Bishopwearmouth on the south side of the River Wear, with a portion of Monkwearmouth (Parish) on the north side....... thus forming one large populous and commercial town, the whole of which is generally denominated Sunderland"

( From notes on Sunderland from GenUKI web site)

So if an official recorded a person born "Sunderland", did that official mean the town of Sunderland, the Parish of Sunderland, or the Township of Sunderland, ( lying within the P of Sld),or  the Parish of MWM, or the Parish of BWM... ?  five similar but different areas

www.joinermarriageindex.com/pjoiner/genuki/DUR/durmap. 

 Shows interactive Parish map for County Durham ( There is also a similar map for Northumberland)


MD

[Michael Dixon]

  Boo,  Northumberland County Record Office is open from Sundays-Wednesdays.  I will look up baptisms from North Sunderland Presbyterian church sometime between next Sunday-Wednesday.

MD

[Tickettyboo]

Thank you, that's very kind and much appreciated.

Boo

  Boo,  Northumberland County Record Office is open from Sundays-Wednesdays.  I will look up baptisms from North Sunderland Presbyterian church sometime between next Sunday-Wednesday.

MD

[Michael Dixon]

  Boo, I got the Record Office week wrong.. It is Wed-Sun, not Sun-Wed. But anyway I visited today.

The source was North Sunderland Presbyterian records 1797-1838.

I looked 1810-1825. No sign of Mary Ann Brown's bapt !

Michael Dixon

[Tickettyboo]

Hello Michael

Thank you so much for going to the trouble to look for me. Though it would have been wonderful to find her, it is still a step forward. At least the list of where she 'wasn't' baptised is growing :-)

I do have to bear in mind that she may not have been baptised at all, plus  despite the fact that the census returns are reasonably consistent in suggesting she was born in North Sunderland, it could have been the other Sunderland or indeed anywhere in the country.
If ever she does turn up, I will let you know ( come to that you will probably hear the whoop of glee all the way from Canada to you)
I really appreciate your efforts.

Boo

  Boo, I got the Record Office week wrong.. It is Wed-Sun, not Sun-Wed. But anyway I visited today.

The source was North Sunderland Presbyterian records 1797-1838.

I looked 1810-1825. No sign of Mary Ann Brown's bapt !

Michael Dixon

[Michael Dixon]

 Boo,

 Is there a possibility that her parents were Roman Catholics ?


MD

[Tickettyboo]

Hi again

Well, I never discount any possibility, but I have no indication of it. As far as I can see , the line down from them were all married in C of E churches until one got married in an RC church in the late 1940s - as far as I know she was the only one in the family up till then to do so and she remained C of E, it was her husband who was RC.


If you aren't terminally bored with my puzzle, I would be interested in your opinion on a straw I found floating by (that I have yet to follow up properly).
The only reference to Mary Ann's father is on her marriage certificate. John Brown, a tailor .

So far I haven't found anything in directories available on the web for a tailor of that name. I was ferreting round the 1841 census for something totally different though and spotted a tailor in Pilgrim  Street in Newcastle - name of John Brown, with a wife called Priscilla ( or Prefrilla as Ancestry has transcribed it in their own inimitable way) . Neither of them were born in the county of Northumberland and it looks like Priscilla was born in Scotland.
Class: HO107; Piece 845; Book: 3;Folio: 16; Page: 25;
Its a fragile wee straw, but they were of the right age to be her parents.

If you have access to the images, do you know what the letter after the word tailor ( it looks to me like a J) signifies? It appears again a few lines down for another tailor.

Boo

 Boo,

 Is there a possibility that her parents were Roman Catholics ?


MD