Can't find Alice Pugh in 1911, any ideas?

[cad]

I'm sure I'm not the only one in this boat, you wait all this time for the Welsh census returns for 1911 to go online expecting to find family there and then find nothing, despair!
 I've found Alice Pugh in the 1901 census for Shrewsbury,
Robert Watkins, H, age 29, Stone Sawyer Mason, born Ludlow
Annie Watkins, W, age 24, born Pontrobert Mont
Daisy A Watkins, Dau, 11 mths, born Shrewsbury
Alice Pugh, Visitor, age 4, born Pontrobert Mont

I'm 99.9% certain Annie is a relative of Alice as her maiden name was Pugh.
I've found the Watkins family in 1911 but Alice doesn't appear to be with them.
The next certainty I know is that Alice bore a child in 1916 whilst a "Help Domestic", the child was born in Rodington Heath, Shropshire. At some point she and her daughter moved to Mold where I believe they had family and then Denbighshire.
The only other significant location I can think of would be Staffordshire where I was told there was family.

I've tried all sorts of searches to find her in 1911 but nothing, has anyone got any idea where she could be? Mum always said I'd have trouble with this family, looks like she was right!

[tressle]

Just checking that you have discounted the Alice Pugh in Forden on the 1911 - I have no credits at the moment so I cannot see any more details.  I think she is a bit too young  (born 1898).

Is there a possibility that she could be Annie's daughter born before her marriage and could she be using Watkins as a name on the 1911.  Was she still using the name Pugh when she had her child in 1916?.

If it's any consolation my grandad is not on the 1911 either which I eagerly awaited as he had managed to avoid the 1901 as well.

Tressle

[cad]

Hi Tressle, thanks for your input,
I had viewed the transcript for Alice Pugh in Forden, she is the daughter of Joseph Pugh, born 1872 Welshpool. His wife is here called Amelia (in freebmd marriage reg she is called Ambllia and in 1881 census she is Ann Bella, go figure!)
This Alice Pugh is born in Llanymenich (sic) and has 7 siblings,
Annie 10, Esther 8, Margaret Ellen 7, all born as above (llanymynech I believe) and May 4, Mille 1, William 4 mths and David 6 all born Shropshire, Worthen, Chirbury.
I haven't enough credits to view the actual document and whilst I haven't discounted her completely, I don't think this is my Alice. I've tried to discount her by finding her in 1901, so far no joy there though I may have found her family in Oswestry (I'm looking at all the options before I commit my coveted credits).

I've considered that Annie may be Alice's mother and I'm still considering it but Pugh is the name on her daughter's birth certificate and the name she used when she married.
Thanks for reminding me about that, recently moved house and my records are in disarray, I can't remember if I found  Annie Watkins nee Pugh in the census for 1891, in 1881 the only Annie Pugh giving Pontrobert as a birthplace is the daughter of John and Mary Pugh of Union Street, Lower Pool, Forden.
OOps, just found my notes, that Annie was too old , there is an Annie Pugh the right age (4) living in Pontrobert, daughter of John Pugh, a widower from Llangyniew, living with him are 2 other daughters Mary 13 and Jane 6. There is another Annie Pugh in Llanfyllin but she is 2 years old.

[cad]

I've just rechecked the 1911 entry for Robert Watkins, now I remember why I doubted Annie was Alice's mother...
In 1911 Robert is a widower, also in the house are 2 daughters Daisy age eleven, Edith age 7 and a son Bertie age 6 all born in Shrewsbury, the form is filled in by the domestic servant May Cruise age 17 from Wellington and the postal address is Post Office Inn, St Michaels Street, Shrewsbury.
Now I'm pretty sure I recall my grandmother (Alice's daughter) telling me about her gran so she must have been alive after 1916, frustratingly all I can remember about the conversation was that she had very tiny hands, I have her gloves and they are indeed tiny! I have found a photo of Alice standing in the doorway of her house in Garden Village Wrexham with a very friendly looking-and suitably little old lady who I hope will turn out to be her, I think this picture would date to the early 30s.
Could some kind soul find Annie in 1891 for me, I can't seem to find my record of it?
Thanks everyone

[Jacquie in Canada]

There are a couple of family trees posted at Ancestry that include the family of Robert Watkins and Annie Pugh. They both have Annie dying in 1911 and give a place of birth as Cardeston, Shropshire. One tree says she was born 15 Feb 1875 at Bretchell Farm, Cardeston, Salop and died 25 Nov 1911 in the Royal Shrewsbury Infirmary, Shrewsbury.

Perhaps Alice listed her place of birth as some place other than Wales on the 1911 census. There is a 15 year old Alice Pugh in Atcham, Shropshire on the 1911 census as well as a 16 year old and a 13 year old Alice Pugh in Clun.

Jacquie

[tressle]

I hope the photograph turns out to be her, how lovely.

Regarding Annie Watkins nee Pugh on the 1891 census, as Jacquie in Canada says there is a tree on Ancestry which gives her whereabouts on the 1891 census as a servant.

Do you have Robert and Annie's marriage certificate as that would confirm Annie's Father and his occupation (hopefully) and thereby helping to confirm her whereabouts on the census.

Hope you find her in 1911.

Tressle

[cad]

Thanks Jacquie and Tressle,
Sorry I've been a bit tardy, it was a hard working week last week.
Interesting you say there are trees on ancestry, I haven't any credit there at the mo so can't look at them but I wonder ...(scratches head), I'm fairly convinced Annie wasn't born in Cardeston and though the year of death 1911 could be right, the entry I found at Freebmd was for March not November (and considering Robert's status in the 1911 census is Widower that would seem to be correct).
Regarding the other Alice pugh, yeah I barked up her tree - wrongly, for quite a while, she's the daughter of Jabez Pugh, shame, I would have liked a Jabez in the family!
The only certificate I have is Alice's daughter's birth certificate, I was convinced I'd find Alice in 1911 and that would make it so much easier to decide which certificates would best further my research, now I've got some choises to make!
I'm still unpacking after a move and can't put my hand on the picture just now but if I find it within the next few days I'll post it here, I'm kinda lucky to have it, unbeknownst to me my brother had them stored in a shed where some critter had a few nibbles at it!
Again, thanks for the input, happy hunting!
cad

[cad]

Hi, I've had a little progress since making this posting and thought I'd give you an update,
I now have Alice's birth and marriage certs so I know she was born in Pontrobert, 15th July 1896 ( eerily I ordered the cert on the 14th), her father is not named and her mother is Jane Pugh, a domestic servant.
She married in 1921 in Wrexham.
I believe I have found Jane Pugh in 1901, aged 26, a domestic servant in The Bull's Head Shrewsbury, another servant there is Elizabeth Metcalf who I think may be a sister of one of Jane's brothers in law, I've yet to prove this link.
Frustratingly I failed to find Jane in 1911, so assuming she married I looked up possible matches on Freebmd, there were a good few hits but I whittled it down to two in Llanfyllin (one dec 1899 to John Jones Roberts and another june 1908 to Edwin Davies and another which lept off the screen at me was Sept 1904 Atcham, to Andrew Dorricott (the other two people listed I was able to pair off by looking at the 1911 census). Now, my mum mentioned once she thought she'd heard of a Dorricott connection and I siezed on this nuggett of info at the time because I knew it was a Shropshire name. Also, Alice names her father on her marriage cert as Andrew Pugh,  farmer- at the time I wondered how she came up with this name as I haven't found any Andrews in the family.
 I found Andrew Dorricott in the 1911, his address is Amaston Cottage, Halfway House, near Pontesbury
Andrew is a farmer and employer aged 41, born Asterley
with him in the house is Jane Roberts, a widow, aged 41 born Montgomeryshire, Pontrobert.
I've got my theories, one being that Jane married Mr Roberts, left him and reverted to Pugh by 1901, remarried in 1904 without disolving that marriage and therefore wasn't entirely honest on the 1911 census form. Of course it could all be a string of coincidences!!
...and I still haven't found Alice in 1911!

[kellie14]

Hi there, can't help you any further, but just thought I would let you know that I am Robert WATKINS' great grandaughter from his second marriage to Edith Harris.  Their son Reginald Denys WATKINS was my paternal grandfather.

Cheers

Kellie Wilton (nee WATKINS)