Author Topic: Seeking the connection between three WATTS women  (Read 11174 times)

Online heywood

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Re: Seeking the connection between three Watts women
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 11 July 09 23:11 BST (UK) »
1851 HO107; Piece: 1768; Folio: 145; Page: 73  (as Walts)
Stratford Essex

Fanny Watts 18 yrs Draper's assistant b Andover

William H Watts was a Linen Draper

This is odd  ???
1841 HO107; Piece 154; Book: 2;Folio: 43; Page: 15

Falmouth Cornwall

Isaac and Esther Watts with 3 daughters
Elizabeth 14 yrs
Kate 10 yrs
Fanny 8 yrs
not born in county
(same as children Nell found)
I can't read Isaac's occupation



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Offline 'Trish'

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Re: Seeking the connection between three Watts women
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 12 July 09 17:18 BST (UK) »
I have a diary entry:
'Lizzie Tye - high View Cottage, Monewden, Woodbridge
Brother at Ipswich - Edward Watts Tye (There are two Edward's one with Watts Tye, one without - brothers)
Her mother & Grandma Quick were cousins, so Rebecca Quick nee Watts (my 3x Great grandmother) was cousin to Ann Tye nee Watts, (but cannot find the connection from Ann Tye and Rebecca Quick) - descended from two brothers of Isaac Watts brothers''s

Rebecca Quick nee Watts was born 1833 Bracknell
Ann Tye nee Watts was born Wiltshire 1830 so could be cousins.  Strange that a niece of Rebecca should call her Grandma Quick?


Rebecca's father was James Watts, Rebecca's brother also James age 5 with Emma Watts and Elizabeth Watts, because they gave such different areas of birth, I presumed that they were not sisters but could be relatives of my Watts who come from Romsey.  It has always been presumed that we are descended from the brothers of Isaac Watts the hymnwriter, but there appears a surplus of Isaac Watts, three being in my family alone.  There also has been quite a few items come down the line which belonged to Isaac Watts, which one I dont know!  Muddled!

The diary entry - but even in this diary in the late 1800's they were presuming the same thing!


1871 Census High Street Hadleigh
TYE Walter Head     M     M 39      Grocer Draper  Suffolk - Mendlesham
TYE Annie      Wife      M  F 41 Miliner          Somerset - Frome
TYE Edward W Son     M      12      Scholar          Suffolk - Hadleigh
TYE Elizabeth      Dau      F 7      Scholar          Suffolk - Hadleigh
TYE Isac         Son      M 6      Scholar          Suffolk - Hadleigh
TYE Edward J    Son     M 2               Suffolk - Hadleigh
CLARKE      Sarah      Servnt     F 18      Gen Serv       Suffolk - Hadleigh

So if this is so Ann Watts born 1830 might be the daughter of Edward Watts born 1762 Romsey.  Edward born 1762 Romsey was a brother to Isaac Watts born 1765 Romsey who was James (snr) father.

This is tying me in knots, anyone good at untying knots!

regards Trish




Fear, Puddy, Bunn, Hemsbury - Wedmore Somerset.  Watts - Romsey Hants, Frome Somerset, Warminster Wilts & Wokingham Berkshire.  Roberts - Newport, Stone Glos, Austin - Monmouth. Dix or Dicks - Frome. Pugh - Llanbrynmair, Trevithin & Tafolwern

Offline 'Trish'

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Re: Seeking the connection between three Watts women
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 12 July 09 18:00 BST (UK) »
I just took a look at this census that I couldnt find earlier, however this Isaac Watts and his family living in Falmouth could be the brother of my James snr.  James snr had two brothers one Isaac ch 14.3.1797 & John ch 11.7.1801 both in Romsey there was also two sisters Ann ch 25.12.1799 & Rebecca ch 3.5..1795.  I was looking for my Isaac Watts and up popped Isaac Watts age 45 a dissenting Minister living at High street falmouth with his wife Esther and girls.  Now they could be the cousins of my James Watts junior who had two Governesses Emma & Elizabeth?

How do I go about prooving or disproving this?  Certainly the Isaac from Falmouth fits the Isaac from Romsey.
 regards Trish
Fear, Puddy, Bunn, Hemsbury - Wedmore Somerset.  Watts - Romsey Hants, Frome Somerset, Warminster Wilts & Wokingham Berkshire.  Roberts - Newport, Stone Glos, Austin - Monmouth. Dix or Dicks - Frome. Pugh - Llanbrynmair, Trevithin & Tafolwern

Online heywood

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Re: Seeking the connection between three Watts women
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 12 July 09 19:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Trish,
what a puzzle  :o

The first (and only) suggestion at the moment is for you to get the details of the marriage of Walter Tye and Anne Watts to see who her father is. Then at least you have a starting point.
You have two birthplaces for Anne- Wiltshire and Frome  :-\

am still thinking ...

heywood  ;)

Added:
I just found the Ann Watts daughter of Lewis and Hepzibah - whilst googling to see if there was anything about that family, I was directed to your another of your threads about this family where you already have that so  not sure where you stand now on this.
I believe you definitely need that certificate to see whether you have the right Ann with parents.

Also re the diary entry- Lizzie Tye was in Hadleigh until at least 1901- was it her or the diarist who lived in Woodbridge?
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Offline 'Trish'

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Re: Seeking the connection between three Watts women
« Reply #13 on: Monday 13 July 09 08:22 BST (UK) »
It was Lizzie who lived in Woodbridge, whilst her brother the young Edward was in Hadleigh, running the red dragon pub.  What is with parents who name two children with the same name!
I have just looked up Hepzibah and it seems she was illigitimate, can anyone varify this for me?

regards Trish
Fear, Puddy, Bunn, Hemsbury - Wedmore Somerset.  Watts - Romsey Hants, Frome Somerset, Warminster Wilts & Wokingham Berkshire.  Roberts - Newport, Stone Glos, Austin - Monmouth. Dix or Dicks - Frome. Pugh - Llanbrynmair, Trevithin & Tafolwern

Online heywood

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Re: Seeking the connection between three Watts women
« Reply #14 on: Monday 13 July 09 15:06 BST (UK) »
Hi Trish,

It was the dates I was concerned about re the diary and trying to clarify this has turned up some other queries.

1871 has the two Edwards- Edward W b 1859 and Edward J born 1869.

Free BMD has births for:
Edward Watts Tye 1859 and
Ernest James Tye 1869
with a death for Ernest James in 1874.
(no Edward J is shown anywhere).

So it looks as though they didn't have 2 sons named Edward.  :-\

Edward Watts Tye married Mary Amelia Watts in Bath in 1885

1891 he is a grocer in Ipswich and in 1901 is a grocer in West Bergholt.

 1901 RG13; Piece: 1750; Folio: 7; Page: 6
Queen Street Hadleigh
Annie, Isaac- a grocer and Lizzie.

so I wonder who kept the Red Dragon Pub? and when?

1911 looks as though:
 Isaac has married and has a child and is perhaps still in Hadleigh. (Red Dragon??)
Annie and Elizabeth are together in Ipswich area
Edward and Mary Amelia are also in Ipswich area.

I have only looked in index so don't know whereabouts in the Ipswich area these people are.

You may have some or all of this as you have bits on other threads - if not it just adds to the muddle.

heywood

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Offline 'Trish'

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Re: Seeking the connection between three WATTS women
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 14 July 09 08:22 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the info, I have the 1861 Census which shows two Edwards.  Edward J was the Landlord of the Red Dragon Pub.  I believe he is the one that married May Amelia Watts (not another Watts!).

1871 Census High Street Hadleigh
TYE Walter Head     M     M 39      Grocer Draper  Suffolk - Mendlesham
TYE Annie      Wife      M  F 41 Miliner          Somerset - Frome
TYE Edward W Son     M      12      Scholar          Suffolk - Hadleigh
TYE Elizabeth      Dau      F 7      Scholar          Suffolk - Hadleigh
TYE Isac         Son      M 6      Scholar          Suffolk - Hadleigh
TYE Edward J    Son     M 2               Suffolk - Hadleigh
CLARKE      Sarah      Servnt     F 18      Gen Serv       Suffolk - Hadleigh

Regards Trish
Fear, Puddy, Bunn, Hemsbury - Wedmore Somerset.  Watts - Romsey Hants, Frome Somerset, Warminster Wilts & Wokingham Berkshire.  Roberts - Newport, Stone Glos, Austin - Monmouth. Dix or Dicks - Frome. Pugh - Llanbrynmair, Trevithin & Tafolwern

Online heywood

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Re: Seeking the connection between three WATTS women
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 14 July 09 15:37 BST (UK) »
Yes that's the census I saw with the two Edwards but it is not supported by a birth and the only likeley birth is for Ernest James who then dies as a child.
Edward J Watts does not appear again in any other censuses.
Edward Watts Tye married Mary Amelia and from censuses was not keeping the pub in the censuses to 1901.
Free BMD has the birth and death of Ernest J and the marriage of Edward Watts to verify this.
Was the diary entry written at the current time or by a family researcher later?
I agree that there must be some evidence somewhere for the  Red Dragon - could have been in between censuses or after 1901. Similarly with Lizzie in Woodbridge - the censuses don't show her there.  :-\

heywood

PS I have looked on here http://suffolkvillages.com/suffolk-index.shtml but can't see a Red Dragon pub :-\

It's very frustrating  ::)
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Offline 'Trish'

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Re: Seeking the connection between three WATTS women
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 15 July 09 12:55 BST (UK) »
I have just found this:  I believe Edward marrys his housekeeper!


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Regards Trish 
Fear, Puddy, Bunn, Hemsbury - Wedmore Somerset.  Watts - Romsey Hants, Frome Somerset, Warminster Wilts & Wokingham Berkshire.  Roberts - Newport, Stone Glos, Austin - Monmouth. Dix or Dicks - Frome. Pugh - Llanbrynmair, Trevithin & Tafolwern