Mary or possibley Marion Barclay

[whaap]

Yes, in Scotland married woman sometimes reverted back to their maiden surname on the death of their husbands, but is this the case with the “Jean Paton” on 1841 census recorded under Vain?

Jean Reid, daughter of William Reid & Jean Patten/Paton, is this the Jean Reid registered as aged 45 on the 1841 census? If this age is correct she would have to be the twin sister of David Reid, this being his declared age, but his sister, Jean Reid, would have been (52 in 1841. The death of Jean Reid aged (79) in 1869 would have her born 1789/90 (correct for her birth), but is this the Jean Reid on the 1841 census aged (45)?

All Kinds of scenarios and permutations open up; is Reid her maiden name or married name? Are the two, William Reid & David Reid recorded, her two sons, and nothing to do with the offspring of David Reid & M.Barclay?

Anomalies regarding age on census records are notorious. For instance, William Reid, born of William Reid & Jean Patten/Paton, on the 1851 census records his age as (69), yet in the 1861 census it has his age as 72. His 1864 death certificate age is recorded as 84 (correct for his birth date 1781).

There are two David Reid’s recorded being born to a William Reid in “Portmoak”, (1) in 1791, declared mother Jean Paton , The other 1794, no mother declared. What is the correct age and parentage of the David Reid who married M. Barclay?  It was hoped that a cross reference of age and address could have been made through a combination of the census records and death certificates to determine this. His death certificate declares (69) in 1864.

No address was recorded on either death certificate of William Reid or David Reid, other than the general Scotlandwell Portmoak.

However, examination of these two documents gives enough to establish that David Reid, who married M. Barclay, was the brother of William Reid. Son to this particular couple of William Reid and Jean Patten/Paton, the brothers died within (64) days of each other.

If the two registered David Reid births were to this particular couple (William Reid & Jean Patten/Paton) the first born in 1791 died, or recorded age on records are incorrect.

Regarding Marion/Mary/Mary Ann Barclay, Wife of David Reid, I have copy of M. Barclay’s death certificate, which I would be happy to transcribe details off, if they are not held already by those with interest in this genealogical line.

[whaap]

Is this the full family of William Reid & Jean Paton,
or are there earlier births to this couple?

William Reid 1781
Robert Reid 1783
Janet Reid   1785
Jean Reid    1789
David Reid  1791
Andrew Reid

[LizD]

Death of Jean Reid 12 March 1869, Single, Scotlandwell Portmoak, Age 79.
Parents: William Reid, Ploughman and Jean Reid maiden name Paton.  Informant Andrew Reid, nephew of (looks like Pitkinny?) Auchterderran

[LizD]

Death of Jean Brown married to Robert Brown, 25th May 1914, Butts of Scotlandwell, Portmoak.  Age 79, Parents: David Reid, Farm Servant & Mary Reid, maiden name Barclay.  Informant Robert Brown, Jnr. 9 Brougham Street, Edinburgh

[LizD]

The informant of Jean Reid is her Nephew Andrew, son of David Reid & Marion Barclay. So I think this clears up the problem of who David belongs to!

[whaap]

William Reed/Reid & Jean Paton/Patten/Patton

The question of full family list to this couple, I believe, is a significant
point for research. As I have not yet found any family beyond the
ones recorded in Portmoak Parish, under various spellings of parents, i.e.
William Reed / Reid & Jean Paton / Patten / Patton, is there the possibility
that any previous recordings of births to this couple, prior to 1781, being
overlooked because of a miss-spelling of a parent Christian name in baptism
record?

Dependent on date of marriage being established for certain, calculation of
time from the marriage event to the first confirmed recorded birth to this couple
would be a good indicator.

Say marriage was 1775 / 6 / 7, that would be a number of years between first
confirmed birth of 1781. Unlikely that no child was born to the couple six / five / four
years after event.

Also, names given to children of David Reid & Marion/ Mary/Mary Ann Barclay
would reflect past family names, such as brothers & sisters etc of David Reid & the
same point regarding his wife's Family.

Just because the list of known family from William Reid & Jean Paton is gleaned
only from Portmoak Parish does not confirm these recorded children were the
only ones to this couple. Remember, the recording of birth event and christenings
is not a census to whole family withing the group living in Portmoak.

In short, are there other family members to this couple not recognized when found
recorded?  Are there decedents researching their genealogical history from family of
William Reid & Jean Paton, either from recorded known family,or more importantly,
unknown/unrecognized family members?  This could be key to progress matters

     

[ecksdochter]

Hello Whaap,
     Perhaps you could tell us where you fit in, in the Reid family tree. Who are you descended from? What part of the world are you from? Do you have a tree on Ancestry that we can compare our trees with? So far you have not shared any positive information of any kind. I thought this web-site was all about sharing any information we had. It's then up to the person who sees that information to either, sheep-like, copy or take time & effort to check & either copy or discard. Sometimes just a name, birth/death date/place, marriage witness etc. can be the last piece of a jigsaw which leads on to another family or generation or means we can eliminate a person/family we are unsure of. My advice would be, ALWAYS DOUBLE CHECK, there are some dreadfully bad trees on-line. Equally, there are good trees (like LizD's) where the owner has obviously spent time & trouble checking facts. (Thankyou Liz for posting about David Reid. We are in complete agreement regarding David).
     Best Regards,     Dod.

[whaap]

That is it then!
Because there is not a gush of personal genealogical history on RC or any other ancestry forum, does this exclude? If avenues of thoughts are to be closed then “Double Checking” in this case is being made a redundant sentiment. Acceptance of a probability should not exclude further inquiry. Regarding lack of “Positive information” in postings, can a reprimand be justifiably applied?  Genealogy is more than a paper chase.

Here are points to consider regarding the David Reid Baptism of 1794:

No date of birth is declared in the 1794 baptism of a David Reid, and no mother being declared at time. There is no recording as to the child’s year of birth.

There is no evidence that the William Reid 1794 declaration regarding David Reid has anything to do with William Reid & Jean Paton.

Possibly attributing the David Reid to the wrong William Reid, would that not confuse?

The possibility of attributing the David Reid, of 1794, to the right William Reid, but wrong mother that would be confusing, would it not?  Do not rule out illegitimacy.

Only five David Reid’s recorded in Kinross in the seventeen nineties on record.
David Reid 1791- William Reid & Jean Paton = Portmoak
David Reid 1793- George Reid & Mary Ready = Orwell
David Reid 1794 – William Reid = Portmoak
David Reid 1795 - Laurance Reid & Susanah Reid = Orwell
David Reid 1795 – Robert Reid & Ann Ready = Orwell

However, others unrecorded could have been born within the county during this period.

There is only one David Reid recorded on record in Kinross in 1791 as categorically stating parents as William Reid & Jean Paton. The David Reid death Certificate of 1864 has parents as William Reid and Jean Paton, but age recorded is 69. Is this declared & registered age on this certificate actually correct?

On the positive side, regarding the wife of David Reid, there is a line of information through her death certificate.

 Information from Death Certificate

Mary Ann Reid
Married to David Reid (Labourer)
Date & Time of Death - 1863 September Ninth
    4h 30m A.M.
Age - 69 Years
Father, James Barclay. Labourer.  Deceased.
Mother, Ann Barclay. M.S. Harley.  Deceased.
Cause of Death. Dropped Down Suddenly, No Medical Attendant.

Signed- David Reid
 Present

Registered    18th Sept. 1863. Portmoak.


Date & Place of Marriage of James Barclay & Marion Harley.
James Barclay  &  Marion Harley
28 Dec 1786
Dunfermline Associate Session, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

Birth Date & Place of Christening Marion Barclay
11 Feb 1794
Dunfermline Associate Session, Dunfermline Fife
Date: 23 Feb.

(Mother of Marion Harley)
Birth Date & Christening Date of Marion Harley
Marion Harley Born 1st Feb1766. Christening date 6th Feb 1766.
Dunfermline, Fife.

Father& Mother of Marion Harley (Born 1766) & Marriage Date.
John Harley & Eupheme  Jack
Date of marriage- 17th April 1761. Dunfermline, Fife.

The above information on Marion Barclay may be known, looked at, and either accepted or discounted, by those following the line. Either way I post.

[whaap]

With regard to a previous posting of mine alluding to the full family of
William Reid & Jean Paton, along with time of marriage & sequence
of birth records.

We have a William Reid & Jean Paton marrying in Fossaway & Tuliebole
In 24th December 1776.
The only references thereafter I have found within Kinross-shire is

•   William Reid & Janet Paton, Cleish.
•   William Reid & Jean Paton, Portmoak.

The first named have three birth records in Cleish

John Reid 7th August 1777
Isobel Reid & Adam Reid, 16th July 1779 (Twins)

The second named have six births in Portmoak

William Reid   1781
Robert Reid      1783
Janet Reid        1785
Jean Reid         1789
David Reid       1791
Andrew Reid   1792

As can be seen, there is a total of nine births in sequence. Whether
the two are indeed the same couple is open for research.

The names of the children hold uniformity in subsequent generations
regarding this researched Reid line. The one that stands out is “Adam”.
 
The Adam Reid of 1779 would be brother to David Reid, if the referred to
couples are one in the same. There the line would be, regarding the Christian
name Adam.

David Reid & Marion Barclay = son Adam 1825
Adam Reid & Helen Houston = son Adam  1856 & again 1866   
James Reid & Grace McGhee/McGee = son Adam1887 etc. etc

The same sort of sequence applies to Robert/John/William etc.

The thrust of genealogical research, I would say, is to establish a depth to
the generations.

My father’s Grandfather is Adam Reid (1825)