anybody know llangeler?

[meaty]

my g-g-g grandfather daniel jones was born there in 1804, and lived in 'milestone' and 'soar uchaf' throughout his life. does anybody know these house/farm and if they still exist?

im also trying to find out where he (and his wife Hannah) are buried, but hes not in llangeler church as ive looked there. just wondering if there was any other place?He died in the 1860's...

thanks

[alltcafan]

Hi Meaty,

Sorry it's taken quite q while to respond.  Apparently according to my aunt who still lives in the area, Soar Uchaf is still there but where "Milestone" stood is now a large posh bungalow and the name has been changed.   There are several possibilities of where the couple could be buried, and when I am next down there looking round cemeteries I will keep a look out for that particular one and take photo and details if I come across the gravestone.  I also am related to an awful lot of Jones' in that area and my aunt informs me that my uncle's mother was a brother to Daniel Jones of Soar Uchaf (but which of the Daniel's I have yet to find out!!!!).  Hope this helps you a little. 

Regards, Alltcafan 

[meaty]

hi, no probs im glad somebody responded. im very grateful to you!

oh thats nice to hear that soar uchaf is still standing but sad about milestone. but alot of dwellings back then would have been mud walled so not that permanent! ive looked on the OS map for thier locations and driven through looking at house-names but i cant seem to locate them (obviously now i know why anyway!). Where abouts is soar uchaf do you know?


thats very kind of you to let me know of the grave if you come accross it. im not that far away (30mins) so id be able to visit it quite easily. im aberporth way so if i can help anyway round here let me know.

ill tell you abit about my jones' that lived in llangeler so it can help you:

daniel anf hannah jones both born in llangeler 1804.
by 1841 both are living at milestone, llangeler with childeren David 11, John 8, Anna 6, Evan 2.
by 1851 both are living at soar uchaf with John 18, Evan 12 and Elizabeth 6.
by 1861 still at soar uchaf with 1 child Elisabeth 16.
1861-1871 - daniel dies
1871 - hannah jones still living in soar uchaf with daughter Elisabeth and also grandsons Daniel 10 and David 4. not sure when she died.

out of all their kids, Anna is my line of descent. she went to live in Llanarth, ceredigion.

well so thats basically all i know about them but i hope it helps you.im sure there must be many descendents living in llangeler today anyway.

[alltcafan]

Dear Meaty,

Thanks for your message.  It was very kind of you to have passed on the Census information, but I had already looked at them.   If you manage to get hold of a Carmarthenshire Sheet XIV S.W. (South West) Second Edition 1907 - (failing all else you can get a copy for a small fee at the National Library at Aberystwyth) you will see that the houses are situated in Saron village which is in the Llangeler Parish (but I'm sure you already know this), just for info there is a Soar Uchaf and a Soar Isaf which are more or less opposite to each other, and Milestone cottage is just a little bit South from them. 

Anyway, I have tried by looking at the old 1907 map and the modern OS 185 Explorer Map Newcastle Emlyn (with, I hasten to add, a lot of help from my husband) to give you some idea of where they were / are:
Soar Uchaf - Grid Ref 2 376 0 /2 377 0 - on West side of A484 at SE edge of Saron opposite public footpath that runs NE to Penrallt-ddu;
Milestone Cottage (now we believe is a new bungalow and re-named): Grid Ref: 2 376 5 / 2 376 0 on East side of A484 at SE edge of Saron (opposite a former? mile-stone don't know whether this is still there or not - if it is, it should read Newcastle Emlyn 6m and Carmarthen 13m.   

According to the book "Hanes Plwyfi Llangeler a Phenboyr" gan Daniel E Jones - which you may or may not have seen (it was a winning essay in the Drefach Felindre Eisteddfod in 1897 and was published as a book in 1899 - anyway in there, on page 322 it mentions the following:  When David Jenkins was a child he was taught to measure with a slide-rule by Daniel Jones, Mason, Soar Uchaf who was an excellent measurer......  Also, at the back of the book as one of the many subscribers, there is a Mr Eben Jones, Milestone, Llangeler.

Thank you for your kind offer of help which I may well take up some-time.  We live in Llandrindod Wells but I have brothers living in Lampeter and Carmarthen and other relatives living in and around Pentrecwrt, Drefach Felindre etc.    I have found gravestones for some of my relatives from Llangeler at Penboyr Church, and Capel Mair, and I found quite a lot at Saron Chapel.  This is a large pale green building and it's fairly near the Llwyndafydd Inn / Pub.

Anyway, that's it for now - hope this helps and happy hunting ....... 
Regards, Alltcafan   

[meaty]

thanks for your reply, wow you are quite knowledgable! i managed to locate both soar and milestone using your detailed info and the oldmaps website. i shall be going over for a spin sometime soon to check what their modern day appearance is. i will let you know if the milestone is indeed still there.

i must say i hadnt heared of the book, but i have now!!!cant believe it mentions daniel as an 'excellent measurer' thats quite something!i would love to buy this book but the reprint versions from 1994 are £30 on amazon!!!it must be quite rare. maybe i will try and find it in aber uni library first to have a read. i must say its the first time anyone in my family history has been mentioned in a book!

now that i know where they lived i will try other churches and chapels nearer them. i have tried the saron chapel (pale green chapel by the pub) but i will also try 'Penboyr' and 'capel mair'. hopefully i will find them!

thanks ever so myuch for your help, i will try and be as helpful for other members who ask thiongs that i know the answer to.

[magicdragon]

Hi...just reading your post with great excitement!  I am descended from Evan Jones who was born 1839 in Llangeler..I believe his father was Daniel, the same as the one you are tracking.  Evan moved to Aberdare and married Mary Price though I have no marriage cert for them and this may fully confirm his father tho I have hunted about and really there are no other options other than daniel.  Evan was a bit of an ambitious and very bright if some what odd man...he went to work in London and became the manager of Aberdare Gas Works.  His wife was the daughter of David Price...who is a bit of a religious figure in Aberdare.

I have lots on evan and mary and their family who were again pretty ambitious.

If you are in the aberdare area and cud confirm the marriage between evan and mary it wud be great,,they married in 1861 or so.  Also some research suggests Daniels wife Hannah was born Hannah LLoyd.  She is still living at tthe same adress in the 1881 census as well btw, with Elizabeth and son david davies.

hope this helps

[meaty]

well now that is interesting - yes id love to hear their full story, they do sound like quite an interesting and successful family. its great that you know so much about them too. please do tell more!

i have been to aberdare, a few years ago, but it was before i started this family history lark. i presume, due to the amount of past industry there, that being a manager of the gas works was actually quite a position of importance. i will be keen to look further into how this family contributed to the town.

with my family tree i tend not to research the whole family (i.e all the brothers and sisters) as going through my direct line of descent is time consuming enough! so im afraid i know nothing of Daniel and Hannah's Son Evan b1839 (your line). sorry.

However, i can tell you some things about the family that i have researched:

Daniel and Hannah are buried in Penrhiw Graveyard Drefach Felindre. They have a central and quite large gravestone, i guess due to their importance as supporters of penrhiw. (penrhiw chapel is not there anymore by the way, it was dissasembled and re-erected in The Museum of Welsh Life St Fagan. I'm yet to visit, but hope to one day soon. They are buried next to the writer of the book mentioned earlier ('Hanes Llangeler a Phenboyr') who was also family. (if i remember correctly)

regarding hannah, you are correct. Hannah Jones was born Hannah Lloyd (or Llwyd in its most un-anglasized form). Her parents were Thomas Lloyd b.1779 Llangeler and Mary Lloyd (no info). The family tree can be traced back to 1640 (someone has already done it on a very popular family history site) - so this is not my work, but of another descendant who deserves full credit. It is not completley persuasive, but alot of work must have been put in. Far more than i could do.

i did however search wills in the National Library and bought a copy of Evan Lloyd's (died 1765) Will, which is quite amazing document.

thanks for the info regarding the 1881 census i'll be sure to look it up next time i am a paid up member of ancestry.

hwyl am nawr.

[magicdragon]

Hey what a swift response!! Great to hear about Daniel and it sort of confirms my thinking as I was wondering how Evan given he is clearly a very educated man was as driven as he was.  I have his obituary on my ancestry page and it makes for hilarious reading... basically it says he was a "peculiar man" numerous times! Very "distant" and all this from a reverend who he was actually related to!! I think Evan was a very strict character who had little patience and huge religious fervour.  One son became a missionary in madagascar and I have got the permission to visist the archives and view his dairies and letters.  Another became a teacher in Norfolk where I live! The daughter my ggmother married into a drapers family Pugh from Aberdare and had a large shop in Cardiff.   

Yes I am glad you have Hannah with the same parents as I presumed..what is the page you refer to?  Have you any idea who Daniels parents were?  Who did your Anna marry?


Sadly being in jolly Norfolk means I am unable to visit chapels as I would like though it does mean I am well placed to view my mothers side who are all local.

[meaty]

yes i just turned the pc on and saw the email reminder!

your ancestry page - can i see it? i am a member but not paid up anymore? have you a link i can try? id love to see the article...and sounds like your line of descent were a bit more adventurous than mine in this llangeler family. Whist your evan (born 1839) had a prosporous career, my anna (b 1835) married a weaver by the name of Enoch Davies and they lived in Llanarth, Ceredigion (pretty close). They married in Llangeler Church Nov 1855. My grandmothers sister had some of their old quilts apparently.

All i know about Daniels parents is that this same person who i referred to earler on ancestry, had it in a family tree, which i noted down. This person had recorded that his parents were Evan Jones (b1771 Llangeler) and Jane Jones (b1790) and that is as far as it goes im afraid. but then again i have not been on ancestry for a couple of years now.

i have pics of the graveyard/graves if you'd like, just tell me your email.

As for Hannahs parents, again all i know is what this ancestry person had in his/her family tree. Apparently Hannah and Daniel married in 5th Feb 1828, which is before the FREE bmd, so i presume this info is from the Carmarthenshire Archives in Bro Myrddyn. Her parents were Thomas Lloyd b.1779 Llangeler and Mary Lloyd (no info).

this is basically all i know of our Daniel and Hannah Jones of Llangeler so id be very grateful for any other info you have or may find.