Author Topic: Pubs closing in 1909  (Read 2562 times)

Offline Malcolm Bull

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Pubs closing in 1909
« on: Monday 24 August 09 14:54 BST (UK) »
I have come across several UK pubs which closed in 1909.

Does anyone know of any legislation at the time which may have resulted in the closures?

Thanks in advance
Surname interests:

Huntingdon: Bull / Shelford
Rotherham: Andrews / Steel
Easingwold: Snowball / Potter

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Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Pubs closing in 1909
« Reply #1 on: Monday 24 August 09 15:13 BST (UK) »
All pubs were licensed, and had to apply at the Licensing Sessions each year for the renewal of the licence. The Police could oppose the renewal of the licence and close the pub for various reasons, the Magistrates could also take away the licence. There was no specific legislation in 1909. The The Intoxicating Liquor (licensing) Act 1872 was the main legislation. The Licensing Act 1902 and The Licensing Act 1904, obliged applicants for new licenses to submit plans of the premises to the licensing justices and allowed for the payment of financial compensation to persons who were refused renewal of a licence.

Stan 
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Malcolm Bull

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Re: Pubs closing in 1909
« Reply #2 on: Monday 24 August 09 15:34 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Stan, it just seemed too much of a coincidence that they all [7 locally in Calderdale] closed in the same year.

Malcolm Bull
Surname interests:

Huntingdon: Bull / Shelford
Rotherham: Andrews / Steel
Easingwold: Snowball / Potter

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Pubs closing in 1909
« Reply #3 on: Monday 24 August 09 21:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Malcolm,

It was as a result of the 1904 Licensing Act. Apparently it was to reduce the numbers of licences in congested areas, and compensation ws paid under the Act.
Under the Licensing Act, 1904, in the seven years from 1905 to 1911, 7,318 licensed premises were closed with compensation. Of these, 6,880 were in England and 438 in Wales.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/acts/licensing-act-1904
Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Malcolm Bull

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Re: Pubs closing in 1909
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 25 August 09 10:30 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Stan.  That makes me feel a lot better.  I could understand pubs closing after WW1 but the sheer number of closures in the 1904-1911 period [I found 47 on my Calderdale Companion website] made me suspicious.

Malcolm Bull
Surname interests:

Huntingdon: Bull / Shelford
Rotherham: Andrews / Steel
Easingwold: Snowball / Potter

Offline newburychap

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Re: Pubs closing in 1909
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 05 September 09 00:35 BST (UK) »
When I first started to look into the closure of pubs in my area I got a bit confused by the 1904 and 1910 Licensing Acts.  The records, notices of closure etc after 1910 show them being closed under the 1910 Act - so I was a bit surprised to find 3 closed in 1909.  Eventually I realised that the 1904 Act started the ball rolling and the 1910 Act repealed the 1904 (and all other earlier legislation) only to consolidate them into new legislation - hence it is known as the Licensing (Cosolidation) Act.

Prior to 1904 the licensing justices had the power to close the so called 'redundant' pubs but were often reluctant to do so because of the financial loss incuredby the owners and licensees. In the 1880s there was a push to get a compensation act passed but it took the best part of 20 years to get it into law as the temperance movement etc were dead against the compensating anyone.  Ironically their opposition kept many pubs open for another 20 years or more.

The money for the compensation payments came from a fund levied from licensees and owners (ie they paid for their own compensation through what was efffectively an insurance scheme.  The money raised annually was not necessarily enough to compenstate more than one or two closures. It seems that some more rural areas built up the fund for a few years before getting down to the serious business of pub closures, 1909 is also the date of the first closures in my area.

Round here  (Newbury,Berks) 16 pubs were closed under the 1904 or 1910 Acts between 1909 and 1931.  At least 4 were closed in the 1880s without compensation.
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Offline mikey15w

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Re: Pubs closing in 1909
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 13 August 17 16:37 BST (UK) »
Hi All,

Came across this post when I was researching my Grt-Grandparents.  They had a pub in Wales and the licence was not renewed in 1909. It was referred for compensation (under the 1904 Act) and the case was considered at the Glamorgan Licensing Committee, along with lots of other pubs.  Most were awarded compensation by my family's pub was "referred to the Inland Revenue". Apparently the tenant was likely to "receive a tenth of the amount alloted"  Does anyone know why they might have been referred to the Inland Revenue and what this entailed?  Many thanks.
Mike

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Pubs closing in 1909
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 13 August 17 17:04 BST (UK) »
Apparently if no claim was submitted. or sufficient details had not been furnished, or the amount of compensation disputed, the case was referred to the Inland Revenue.
It was the duty of the Inland Revenue Commissioners, to prepare, and to keep corrected, a register of all fully licensed premises and beer-houses, of the amount which would be payable as compensation in respect of the premises.

Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Pubs closing in 1909
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 13 August 17 17:16 BST (UK) »
From a report in the  Hampshire Chronicle - Saturday 09 January 1909
In estimating the compensation to be given to a public house when a licence was refused the parties interested had a right, if they pleased, to agree on an amount, and to submit it to the Committee, and if the Committee came to the conclusion  that it was the right amount then that was the amount under the Act of Parliament which was made absolute in the first instance; otherwise the matter is referred to the Inland Revenue, who go into it, and give an award on which the Committee are bound to act.

Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk