Author Topic: Alexander/Mcleish  (Read 17027 times)

Offline sarahlb1981

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Re: Alexander/Mcleish
« Reply #9 on: Friday 28 August 09 20:23 BST (UK) »
Hi again,
I have checked the birth certificate of Peter Alexander married to Margaret Findlay and there is nothing in the parents box, it said he died when he was about 70 in 1859 so no exact date there either. I have also checked the marriage records and still no joy. I was hoping maybe you could give me some advice about how to get his parents names. It's very frustrating! I think his parents are John Alexander and Jane Fraser but not 100%

On another subject do you subscribe to a website? For example once you have subscribes and you pay monthly do you know of you get free access to all of the records? I have already spent £12 in 2 days! Thanks for your help so far, I won't keep bugging you when I get stuck!  :D

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Alexander/Mcleish
« Reply #10 on: Friday 28 August 09 22:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Sarah

Please, Keep asking when you get stuck! It's what Rootschat is all about  ;D

Do you mean, you've downloaded Peter's 1859 death certificate and there is nothing on it about his parents?

Which marriage record have you checked?

Where do the names John ALEXANDER and Jane FRASER come from?

I subscribe to the website which you can reach by clicking:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06z5/

Have sent you a PM with a few search idea for you  ;)

But basically, I do recommend you establish your base of fact, proven by documentation and then branch out from there. Clues to identity and family come from all sorts of lateral searches. Gather everything you can on David & Susan and Peter and Margaret whom you know to be right - including all Census - you never know who they might be living with, next door etc etc which might help you securely identify past generations.

I suppose, the way to go is by taking each step on Gt Aunts tree and proving each claim made on it?

Memorial inscriptions, Burial records, childrens names, places of residence, occupations  ;) - all have potential clues too -  ask away on Rootschat for what you need each time - either someone will be able to help with the actual information or can point you in the right direction.

There are many many websites and organizations to assist your searching - but it's easier to reccomend based on a specific need, too many to mention otherwise - other than the obvious: IGI, FreeCen, A**ces**try, Newsgroups at Rootsweb (see below)  etc etc. Not forgetting Google, either !!

These sites are  free:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/
http://www.genuki.org.uk/

Rootsweb has been around since Internet genealogy took off.  It is completely free - Ancestry bought the 'business' but the deal meant Ancestry keeps the site free and it's run separate to pay-for Ancestry proper

Cheers
AMBLY

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Alexander/Mcleish
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 29 August 09 02:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Sarah 
per our PM's..... ;)

On the proviso, that David ALEXANDER son of Peter ALEXANDER and Margaret FINLAY, is definitely your line.....

David & Susan's 1869 marriage, established his parents as:
Peter ALEXANDER
Margaret FINLAY
Q: What was Peter's occupation on that certificate ? Ploughman or Farm Servant or similar? Grain Store Keeper?
Q: Does it state either of David's parents as deceased?
Q: Who were the witness to the marriage?

IGI MARRIAGE:
(Extracted) Peter ALEXANDER and Margaret FINLAY 22 Nov 1840, Blairgowrie, Perthshire
Q: did you download this marriage OPR? If so what did it say?

In keeping with Scottish practice, Blairgowrie is likely to be the bride's 'home' parish at the time of the marriage. [Sometimes you will see 2 marriage entries on the IGI for the same people, on the same or slightly different dates in the same year and in different parishes. This was also quite common - for eg: one will be a record of the Banns called in the  grooms parish and the other, the Banns and actual marriage in the brides Parish]

In 1841, at address Couthe Hill, Bendochy, Perthshire
Peter ALEXANDER 20, Ag Lab and Margaret ALEXANDER 25
Both born Perthsire
No children - in keeping with them being newly married
(Note in the 1841 Census ages of those age 15+ were rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5 - so Margaret at least was probably nearer 29 or so in 1841)

In 1851, at Address Coutie, in Bendochy, Perthshire
Head: Peter ALEXANDER  30, b Nunclavin?? , Perthshire in abt 1821
Wife Margaret FINLAY 40, b Coupar Angus in abt 1811 - and three children, all born Coutie, Bendochy
Alexander ALEXANDER 8,   David ALEXANDER 6 and Grace ALEXANDER 2 months

In 1861, at address West Bendochy, Bendochy, Perthshire
Peter ALEXANDER 38, b Kinclavin Perthsire
Wife: Margaret ALEXANDER 48, b Co. Angus and children:
David ALEXANDER 15  and Grace ALEXANDER 10

In 1871, at address Blairgowrie Road, Coupar Angus, Angus
Head: Peter ALEXANDER 50, Grain Store Keeper, b Kinchaven? Perthshire
Wife: Margaret ALEXANDER 60, b Coupar Angus
Dau: Grace ALEXANDER 20, Power Loom Weaver Linen, b Bendochy
(I don't think Jane McDONALD 56, Agt Out Door Worker , b Moulin, Perth lumped in with them in 1871 on A***ry   is part of their household - she's on a different Househild Schedule number).

In 1881: Candlehouse Rd Private House (Queen St) - Coupar Angus, Angus
Head: Peter ALEXANDER 59, Labourer in Grain Store, b Kinclavin Perthshire,
Wife: Margaret F or ALEXANDER 67, b Coupar Angus
Dau: Grace A or BRYSON 30
Son-In-Law: John BRYSON 36, Labourer In Tan Work, b Kemback Fifeshire
Grandau:  Margaret F BRYSON 6, b Coupar Angus
Grandson: John L BRYSON 5, b Coupar Angus
Grandau: Elizabeth C BRYSON 2, b Coupar Angus

Hang on - What was the certificate you have for 1859 with no parents on it ?
Hi again,
I have checked the birth certificate of Peter Alexander married to Margaret Findlay and there is nothing in the parents box, it said he died when he was about 70 in 1859 so no exact date there either. I have also checked the marriage records and still no joy. I was hoping maybe you could give me some advice about how to get his parents names. It's very frustrating! I think his parents are John Alexander and Jane Fraser but not 100%

IGI Birth (extracted):
Peter ALEXANDER b 8 Jun 1820, chr 18 Jun 1820 Kinclavin Perthsire
Parents: James ALEXANDER and Catherine McINTYRE

The IGI is not a complete record of events - but that birth 1820 looks promising - my only hesitation is, the names of the parents James and Catherine don't figure in the names of Peter & Margaret's children - the scottish naming pattern was very strong in Scotland; not all kept to it but it is generally thought of a big help with sorting out a family tree especially pre 1855.

Here is the Genuki pages on Perthsire parishes  - you will see that Coupar Angus is part of Forfar and Perthshire
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/PER/parishes.html

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline sarahlb1981

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Re: Alexander/Mcleish
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 29 August 09 03:14 BST (UK) »
Hi! I've just got your message having just been on the Scottish p website and came to the same conclusion. There isn't any other options. It says says he was born  18/06/1820 ALEXANDER PETER JAMES ALEXANDER/CATHRINE MCINTYRE M Kinclaven /PERTH 

Although on that website it says that he was born in 1823.

On the death cert, there just a blank where it should say his parents. On the OPR marriage it says they got married on the 22/11/1840. It says "Peter Alexander and Margaret Findlay both in this parish" (Blairgowrie). No other info at all. No mention of parents on any census either. I get the feeling he worked on the estates as a gardener?

Anyway, again thanks. I think we've got to the bottom of it. I'm now intrigued about Peter's parents. I think that'll be tomorrows job. Its now 3 am, so I am definitely going to bed!!

See you soon, Sarah x


Offline AMBLY

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Re: Alexander/Mcleish
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 29 August 09 03:47 BST (UK) »
Hi Sarah

The lack of parents names and the like, is how it was pre 1855 Scotland - Sometimes, you'll get a mention of a father in an OPR marriage. And sometimes the notation b or s or w  - for batchelor, spinter, widow. Sometimes at a baptism, the witness names can be of help.

Out of curiosity, when did Peter died? I see he was in the Census up to 1901 and in the Alms House then,

Ages on the Census can vary to a great or lesser degree - mistakes by the enumerator copying over the Householders schedules into his book, mis-hearing, vanity or propriety (often women ;D but not always and sometimes to disguise large age gaps between a couple),  and so on.

The list of children to James ALEXANDER and Cathrine McINTYRE on the IGI do seem to fit in, too amd has echoes in the names of some of Peter's children.

IGI Marriage: James ALEXANDER and Catherine McINTYRE - 22 Nov 1807, Kinclavin, Perthshire

IGI has the following birth/christenings in Kinclavin to James ALEXANDER and Catherine McINTYRE
Robert 1809
Alexander 1811
John 1813
Thomas 1815
James 1818
Peter 1820
Stuart 1823
David 1824
William 1826

Noting, no girls! Maybe they had none - the boys are evenly spaced.
Beware though that some of the IGI extractions carried out by the LDS took only the male name, not the girls.
And some took only the girls and not the boys!

Yes, I must tear myself away too and go and do some ----------urgh ----------housework  :P

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Alexander/Mcleish
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 29 August 09 04:13 BST (UK) »
Hi Sarah

here's a couple of articles on how the IGI etc  works  - especially in regards to extracted versus submitted entries

http://www.mail-archive.com/lds-genealogy-l@rootsweb.com/msg02340.html
http://www.ancestor-search.info/SRC-IGI.htm

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline sarahlb1981

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Re: Alexander/Mcleish
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 29 August 09 22:19 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the info. I've had another look at the death certificate and it's totally the wrong Peter! I've looked it up again, but have run out of credits...again so managed to get this

1 1900 ALEXANDER PETER     M 76 ST ROLLOX GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/06 1589
2 1901 ALEXANDER PETER     M 77 WOODSIDE ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/03 0115

This was a search from 1900 to 1940, there's no way he could have lived longer than that, but he must have lived to a respectable age, I hope it's in the genes!

I did find out that that Magaret Findlay was born in Newcastle. It says this on the Cencus Norhumberland, Westgate for 1881 and they were living there at this point, with a couple of their children and families, but then Peter must have gone back to Scotland on his own or they both went back but Margaret died, I need to find out when Margeret died and where.

See you later x

Offline sarahlb1981

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Re: Alexander/Mcleish
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 29 August 09 23:11 BST (UK) »
I did find out that that Magaret Findlay was born in Newcastle. It says this on the Cencus Norhumberland, Westgate for 1881 and they were living there at this point, with a couple of their children and families, but then Peter must have gone back to Scotland on his own or they both went back but Margaret died, I need to find out when Margeret died and where.


Scrap that! There must be a link with my ancesters, but I'm not sure what it is yet. I'm getting very confused!! x

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Alexander/Mcleish
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 30 August 09 00:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Sarah

Boy, you had me going there for a minute - I see the Westgate, Northumberland 1881 Census you found - the only similarity being names and ages, and born "Scotland" for Peter. Common names all round and I would guess nothing to connect to yours? As you've now seen, your Peter & Margaret are in Coupar ANgus in 1881, and your Margaret is consistent with her place of birth as Coupar Angus.

Re: Peter I would doubt either of the 2 you mention above are he. The 1900 certainley not as your Peter (I believe) is in Coupar Angus in 1901. I would also doubt that sometime between the 1901 Census and the end of that year, he shifted to Aberdeen and died - though conceding it is possible he may have gone, for example to be with one of his adult children who happened to be in Aberdeen).


1891: S?  Persie Bothy - Kirkmichael, Persie, Perthshire
Head: Peter ALEXANDER 70, Cattleman, b Kinclavin, Perthshire
This is only one I can find that might be he.
Fits with Margaret having died and he moving into a job outside of  where he had lived for years, in order to keep himself.


1901:Almshouse, Coupar Angus, Perthshire
Inmate of Almshouse: Peter ALEXANDER 78, Pauper formerly Gardener, b Kinclavin Perthsire
This is most likely he. The age discrepancy is not at all unusual, his details perhaps having been supplied incorrectly by the manager of the Almshouse. He would have gone into the Almshouse of his parish - ie: Coupar ANgus rather than a 'stranger' parish

So it seems Margaret may have died between 1881 and 1891, most likely in Coupar Angus (which is Perthshire County on SP)

And Peter died after 1901, most likely before 1921 and most likely in Coupar Angus, (again, Perthshire.) Once in the Almshouse it's highly unlikely he shifted far, it at all before he died (though as mentioned above, always the possibility he came out and went to one of his childrem wherever they lived)

Cheers
AMBLY

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)