Author Topic: Isabella Burns circa 1817  (Read 2506 times)

Offline burnswebber

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Isabella Burns circa 1817
« on: Sunday 30 August 09 17:02 BST (UK) »
Circa 1817 help please. Isabella daughter of Thomas Burns gardener according to marriage certificate.  Where would I find her birth certificate and her parents marriage certificate?  Isabella married William Webber in Bristol -1838. I am new to this site so forgive my inexperience.

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Offline ore-dragon

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Re: Isabella Burns circa 1817
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 30 August 09 23:58 BST (UK) »
Dear Burnswebber,

Birth, Death and Marriage registartions did not start in England until 1837 and in Scotland in 1855.  If the birth and marrigae were before these dates, as your message suggests, then it is the parish records that need to be referred to.  Do you have any idea where the birth or marriage took place? It has to be said the coverage of the Parish Records can be patchy.

I have looked up the IGI using Isabella Burns with father Thomas and date 1817 +/- 5 years in the British Isles and only 1 entry came up in 1822 in Fife.  Could this be what you are after?

If the birth/marriage took place in Scotland then the Parish records are on-line.

Regards,

Ore Dragon

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Offline Forfarian

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Re: Isabella Burns circa 1817
« Reply #2 on: Monday 31 August 09 10:38 BST (UK) »
Circa 1817 help please. Isabella daughter of Thomas Burns gardener according to marriage certificate. Where would I find her birth certificate and her parents marriage certificate?

Nowhere; birth, marriage and death certificates did not exist in 1817 or earlier. The best you can hope for is an entry in the parish registers of baptisms and marriages.

How old does her marriage certificate say she was in 1838? If she was 'of full age' this means (I think) 21 or over, but I have not seen an English marriage certificate from that time so I don't know if they give an exact age for younger brides.

Quote
Isabella married William Webber in Bristol -1838.
The best thing to do next would be to look for William and Isabella in the census (unless they emigrated before the 1841 or 1851 census). If they were still in Britain, this will tell you whether Isabella was born in England or in Scotland, which is a pretty important detail as further research is quite different in the two different countries. The 1851 census will tell you her parish of birth if she was living in the same country as she was born in, but if she had moved from one to the other it will just tell you which country she was born in.

Does her marriage certificate say whether or not her father was deceased? If he was still alive in 1838, you could also try looking in the 1841 census for Thomas Burns, gardener.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline burnswebber

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Re: Isabella Burns circa 1817
« Reply #3 on: Monday 31 August 09 19:31 BST (UK) »
 :)Thank you Ore dragon and Forfarian for youe messages. The information I have is from marriage certificate which states born in Dumfires. Father Thomas, gardener, marriage by banns and witnesses Thomas Guillams and Esther Undrdowne. She and family are on all census returns until 1871. If I could find some siblings it might help I suppose? Also not sure when they moved south to Bristol.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Isabella Burns circa 1817
« Reply #4 on: Monday 31 August 09 22:36 BST (UK) »
So what is her age in the 1851 census?

And does her marriage certificate say that her father is deceased?

Is there a specific reason for posting this on the Angus forum - for example a connection with somewhere in Angus?
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline burnswebber

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Re: Isabella Burns circa 1817
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 01 September 09 14:56 BST (UK) »
Isabella was of full age on marriage in 1838. Father stated as Thomas and Gardener I presumed he was alive. 1841 census gives Isabella's age 24. 1871census gives place of birth Hant Berwickshire. 1881 place of birth as Dundee so I thought that came under Angus. Other documentation mention Dumfries so I am very confused. Have I put the post in the wrong place? Sorry not very good at this computer business.














Offline Forfarian

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Re: Isabella Burns circa 1817
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 03 September 09 20:00 BST (UK) »
1881 place of birth as Dundee so I thought that came under Angus.

You're quite right. It was just that I couldn't see the connection before. Don't know what to make of Hant, or the variations in her place of birth.

I reckon a search of the 1841 censuses for a Thomas Burns, gardener, would be your next step.

Good luck!







Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline burnswebber

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Re: Isabella Burns circa 1817
« Reply #7 on: Monday 07 September 09 07:39 BST (UK) »
Thanks Forfarian.
I have looked up thomas on free bmd and there is a thomas burns deceased in bristol 1843. I do not understand how to access any further information from that site.  Do I use the page numbers quoted and write for a death certificate or am I able to view the details on line somehow so that I can make sure it is the correct thomas?  I do appreciate your help.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Isabella Burns circa 1817
« Reply #8 on: Monday 07 September 09 15:12 BST (UK) »
If it's on FreeBMD it's presumably in England or Wales. You cannot view English or Welsh certificates online. You can order a copy online - there is a link at the foot of the results page on FreeBMD which will take you to the online ordering system., or you can go direct to http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ Certificates cost 7 and you need to quote the year, quarter, volume and page listed on FreeBMD. Be warned, English and Welsh death certificates, unlike Scottish ones, don't tell you the names of the parents of the deceased.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith