Who's the dad of George CARTER 1831 Paulton

[Laura75]

Edith GREGORY from my contacts Tree:

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/43148416/person/13221851517

Daughter of James NASH and Eliza GREGORY. This is her husbands family, so she has lots of photos attached to her tree.

[Trees]

Probably little Edith M was given to the widow to look after by the parish. This was a common way of looking after base born children by the poor law officials The parish would pay the widow child care giving her a bit of income and freeing the mother to work on her own account so she was not liable to the parish for relief. Luckily it seems once Eliza married her husband accepted Edith into his family. It would be an idea to look at the Paulton Poor law records to see if Eliza had named the father it is possible it was James Nash but could well have been some one else. ( I have a small piece about the Parish poor law on my web site:
http://www.mcmullin.plus.com/sh%20bar%20paper.html
and http://www.mcmullin.plus.com/poor%20law.html and
http://www.mcmullin.plus.com/overseers.html
May interest you. I really must update these pages I have more examples now particularly of bastard children being "nursed" by widows. I recently found one on my tree who was given to a young widow with children the same age as my ancestor whose parents both died when she was only 2 A good result for all concerned she had a loving family with other children to play with and the widow had a little extra income being paid for five rather than four children.

[tbennett54]

Hello again. I just picked up this thread and very interesting it is too.  We have moved onto a younger George Carter than the one mentioned in the thread heading, hope that's OK. Trees, you said "Does anyone know who George Carter born 1841 Paulton was  This one married Ann BULL who was the widow of  John Carter and the mother of George Carter 1839".

I think he is the George Carter born about 1837 (not 1841 - his age is understated in the later censuses), son of John Carter and Amy Bull (m 6 Feb 1826 Paulton), who seem to have stopped having their children baptised after 1831.  I can't find exactly why I have him for this odd marriage to a woman 20 years older than himself, but I seem to have eliminated all the alternative George Carters of similar age, and there are a great many!

George seems to be in Llangattock in 1861 in the household of George Hughes and is stated to be his "relation", though I haven't worked out which.  These Carters certainly keep you on your toes!

[Trees]

Good to meet up again I'm away from home until tomorrow evening will answer fully then
H.

[Trees]

Home again
1871 RG10/5586
Anne CARTER   Head   Wid   52    Paulton
Charles       Son   Unm   21    Paulton
William       Son       18     Paulton
Esther       Daur    13    Paulton
George       Lodger   Unm    32   Paulton

George born about  1839

George and Ann BULL married in 1871
1881
RG11/5464 fo130 p21   
George CARTER   Head   Mar   41   Paulton
Ann      Wife   Mar   62         Paulton
Charles      Son   Wdr   31   Paulton
William      Son   Un   26   Paulton

Charles and William were sons of john Carter and Ann BULL George born about 1840

1891 RG12/4575 fo107 p 1
George CARTER   Head   Marri ed   52   Paulton    
Ann CARTER   Wife   Married   73            Paulton
William CARTER   Son   Single   38   Coal Miner   Ed   Paulton

george born about 1839

So I am not convinced he was the one born 1837
There are so many George Carters from Paulton I have found 9 born between 1839 and 1842! Are you sure you can acount of them all?

[Trees]

1,Baptised 1568   05 May 1839   George   John   Ann   CARTER   Paulton   Collier cant be him he married Ann!
2. 1576   21 Jul 1839   George   base born of  Ann   CARTER   Paulton
3.base born nother Fanny age 2 on the 1841 census and 11 in 1851 married Elizabeth JORDAN
4.1590   25 Dec 1839   George   Joseph   Betsy   CARTER   Paulton   Collier
5. 18      26 Jul 1840   George   -   George   Frances   CARTER      Paulton   Collier
in Dudley in 1851
6 The George in question
7.son of John and Elizabeth nee Barton died 1861
8.120   22 May 1842   George   John   Priscilla   CARTER      Paulton   Collier married Mary Ann GREGORY
9.121   22 May 1842   George   William   Betty   CARTER      Paulton   Collier
died in infancy

[tbennett54]

That's a good list and I realise it is foolish to claim I have accounted for all of them.  And I now think I am probably wrong saying that George the son of John Carter and Amy Bull is probably the one to marry Ann.  But he is another to add to the list (and there is no baptism for him in Paulton.)   In the census here he is:

1841, Paulton: John Carter 30 butcher, Amey 30, Thomas 14, Phebe 7, George 4, Samuel 1.

1851, Winterfield, Paulton: John Carter 44 butcher, Amey 44, George 12, Samuel 10, Elizabeth 8, Emma 6, John 4, Hannah 1, all b Paulton.

This George is not with his family in 1861. 

But perhaps we can accept that the one who married Ann is the same one who is living with George Hughes in Llangattock in 1861.  It would help to know what his relationship with George Hughes is.  George must I think be George HEW (bp 24 Dec 1820 Paulton), son of James Hew and Mary Hewish.  He married Margaret Lewis on 11 Mar 1852 in Llangattock (stated to be the son of James "Hughes").  I'm not bothered by the Hew/Hughes thing.  It would be natural for a Welsh census enumerator and a Welsh vicar to take Hew as the common Welsh Hughes.

Number 4 on your list, George the son of Joseph and Betsy, comes into play now.  His mother is Betsy or Elizabeth HEW.  There seems to be no baptism for her but her age in the census suggests a birth date about 1817.  I can't establish a relationship between her and James / George HEW, but there is a nephew Edward HUGHES aged 10 (b Beaufort, Brecon) with her in 1881 in Paulton. 

I haven't managed to dig out anything more substantial - Edward seems to have disappeared after 1881.  Betsy Carter nee Hew died in 1887.  And George Hughes alias Hew and his wife Margaret seem not to be in the census after 1871 either.  But I suppose a possible scenario is that George Hew/Hughes and Betsy wife of Joseph Carter are siblings.  Edward is George's son.  And these connections make it more likely that George Carter, who is with George Hughes in 1861, is the son of Joseph and Betsy Carter.

Then there's the conundrum of George Carter the lodger with Joseph and Betsy in 1861 - New Town, Paulton: Joseph Carter 48 coal miner, Betsy 44, Henry 14, Mary 9, Sarah 6, Felix 3, George Carter (lodger) 22 coal miner, all b Paulton.

Could he be enumerated twice (not impossible!)?  Is George the lodger not Joseph and Betsy's son?  I think I saw an earlier thread on this.  The son is here, anyway:

1841, Paulton: Joseph Carter 25 coal miner, Betty 20, George 1.

1851, New Town, Paulton: Joseph Carter 38 coal miner, Betsy 34, George  11, Elizabeth 7, Henry 4, all b Paulton.

Hmm.

[Trees]

A lot to chew on there will take a look and get back with my thoughts on it later

Will we ever sort these Carters out  why do some get baptised and others just appear on censuses
I think we need a chart showing which families turn up in Wales and which stay in Somerset too
umm plenty to keep us going

[tbennett54]

A little bit more digging. There's no birth registration for an Edward Hughes (or variants) around 1871 in the Crickhowell district, which covers Beaufort.  There is an Edwin Morgan Hughes born Dec qtr 1870.  In the 1871 census we have:

Prisk, Llangattock: Nimrod Hughes 40 iron miner b Paulton, Elizabeth 38 b St Mary Devon, Charles 13 b Bedwellty, Mary 7 b Bedwellty, William 5 b Beaufort, Edwin 6mo b Beaufort, William Jones (lodger) 24 iron miner b Malmesbury Wilts.

"Edwin" and "Edward" are sometimes interchangeable, so I think this is the Edward living with Betsy Carter nee Hew in 1881 in Paulton, stated to be her nephew. Nimrod Hew, bp  2 July 1826 in Paulton, is a son of James Hew and Mary Hewish.  Ergo, Betsy is a sister of Nimrod.  Betsy's son George Carter (bp 25 Dec 1839 Paulton) is therefore a nephew of George Hew/Hughes who is in Llangattock in 1861.  So "relation" means in this case nephew.

We dig and we dig.... (bit we will never sort out the Carters).