Author Topic: COURTNAGE family, Lurgashall/Bepon  (Read 21281 times)

Offline janan

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Re: COURTNAGE family, Lurgashall/Bepon
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 08 July 10 09:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Lesley

 13 children over 22 years is exhausting but not impossible; one of mine had 14 also over 22 years. Although if Charlotte was born 1789 as you believe she would have been 49 by the time Emily was born, not impossible but I guess unlikely. I wonder if Henry junior born c1801 also married a Charlotte? I notice Daniel Frederick Eliza James Henry and Emily are with him in 41, Eleanor is with Henry senior and Charlotte - see earlier postings. Ooh yes in 51 Eliza, James and Emily are with Henry junior listed as daughters and son - so somewhere there must be a marriage of  Henry to Charlotte ? maybe c1825. It seems your 2xgreat grandfather could well be son of Henry junior son of Henry senior and Sarah, not certain as the 41 doesn't give relationships. Some census tracking might confirm.

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline cardiffbay

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Re: COURTNAGE family, Lurgashall/Bepon
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 08 July 10 20:43 BST (UK) »
Hello Jan,
Thank you so much for all your help first of all. About Daniel bapt: 15h Jan 1826 in Headley.  No doubt his about his parentage. Father Henry Courtnage and I believe Charlotte Hounsome. By way of Census tracking I found Daniel on the 1851Census with his wife nee Frances Kewell. He is 25. Now the only facility I have open to me is the IGI.  I cannot acces Parish Registers which would be a primary source. I cannot find a marriage between a Henry Courtnage and a Charlotte around 1825, which is why I believed he was Henry and Charlotte Hounsome's Son, but I accept what you say about her age.
There is a marriage between another Henry Courtnage and Charlotte Mooney on 31st May 1874 which is too far in the future.  Therefore, the last five children I listed cannot be from that union.
I know when Henry married Charlotte Hounsome it never said he was widowed. However, I believe Henry's 1st marriage was to Sarah Mitchel in 1793 at Kirdford.  The had a total of 7 children. The first recorded birth was for charlotte in 1796, so its possible Sarah had other children before , that could have died. Her last child Shadrach was a nightmare. He ended up in a penal colony in Tasmania and died there.
The Henry you speak of born in 1801 was baptised in Lurgashall.  In fact when Charlotte was born in 1796 they were living in Selbourne, moved to Lurgashall and had Sarah 1799, and Henry 1801. By 1804 they were in Treyford where Harriet was born, then onto Bepton where Ann was born in 1807, followed by Charles in 1811 and Shadrach in 1813 leaving Henry widowed by October 1814 aged about 38.  Henry Snr then marries Charlotte Hounsome in 1816; has Eliza in 1817 and John in 1819 in Bepton and the rest are born in Headley.
As all these children up to Emily in 1838 are recorded as having parents as Henry & Charlotte, by process of illimination, I believed they were of that union, but that doesn't make me correct.
Henry and Charlotte's Son James  died aged 10 months and was buried on 1st July 1826 in Headley. They were living in the Parish House then in Headley itself. They also had another daughter called Caroline who appears to have been baptised twice -privately and publicly? in 1828. So, the question is, is Daneil 1826 the Son of Henry and Charlotte Housome or the Son of Henry of 1801 henry Courtnage who I believe died/buried 2nd December 1875 aged 78 years - I just don't know. I am satisfied that I have found all the marriages of the children born to Henry and Sarah Mitchell with the exception of Henry.
I cannot find him anywhere on the 1851 census at all. I am loathed to get it wrong Jan because it means so much to me. Any views as to where I go from here?

Lesley

Offline janan

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Re: COURTNAGE family, Lurgashall/Bepon
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 08 July 10 22:14 BST (UK) »
Is this Henry and family in 1851? Transcribed as "Cambridge" -

HO107/1596 Folio 224 Page 4
Headley, Hampshire

Henry C.......age widower 49 Ag Lab Lug...sha.. Sussex
James 18 Ag Lab Hants Headley
Henry 16 Ag Lab          "
Emily 14                       "

Regards
Cat

Cat found Henry born c1801 the entry is very smudgy - Henry's birthplace is given as Lugashaw Sussex,  which is probably either his or the enumerator's best guess at spelling Lurgashall. As Cat says his surname is transcribed as Cambridge but looks like Courtnage to me. Now James 18 Henry 16 and Emily 14 who are with him in 1841 (along with your Daniel, Frederick and Eliza) have nothing in the relationship column. The 51 turns out to be no more help than the 41 - are these his children, his siblings or a mixture? Henry is a widower  so he was married to someone - was she a Charlotte? I'm leaning heavily towards yes, but of course maybe wrong. One reason is Charlotte nee Hounsome's age when she would have had the last few children (she is at least 55 in 1841 so would have been 52 when she had Emily) Another is  the children living with Henry junior in both 41 and 51- it seems to me to be beyond the call of brotherly duty to take in 6 siblings the yougest only 3! One way of finding out something would be to get Emily's birth certificate she being the only child born after 1837) which would give her mum's maidenname. Here she is
Emily Courtenage jan qtr 1838 Farnham registration district Vol 4 pg 950

As you say it does matter a lot to get things right, which isn't always easy.

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline cardiffbay

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Re: COURTNAGE family, Lurgashall/Bepon
« Reply #30 on: Friday 09 July 10 07:48 BST (UK) »
Thank you Jan,
What you have provided is very kind of you, and I just wanted to say  how much I appreciate the information.  I will apply for Emily's Birth Certificate today as you suggest. It is now obvious to me why I couldn't Henry Courtnage on the 1851 Census due to the transcription of his name. As soon as I get it, I will let you have all the information contained in it.
Thank you again
Best Wishes
Lesley


Offline janan

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Re: COURTNAGE family, Lurgashall/Bepon
« Reply #31 on: Friday 09 July 10 09:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Lesley

I look forward to hearing what the birth certificate says - was Charlotte Hounsome still having babies in her 50s or will we know who Henry junior married? Of course if it is the latter it still won't let us know which of the later children belonged to Henry senior, which to Henry junior. It is possible the Headley registers could help - if there were two Henry and Charlottes having children the registrar may have indicated junior or senior to distinguish. A request on the Hampshire Look-up board for the Headley baptisms to be checked for further information would be worthwhile - someone may be able to help.

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline cardiffbay

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Re: COURTNAGE family, Lurgashall/Bepon
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 11 July 10 17:25 BST (UK) »
Hello Jan,
You wont believe this one!
I am  sure you have in the past spoken to a lady called Karen Tooth.  She is my husnand's second cousin.  She came to see us yesterday in Wales on the way to her holiday destination at St.Davids.  I told her I had purchased the Birth Certificate of Emily Courtenage, and she said "..oh I wished you had told me - I have it"... Brilliant I say, what is Charlotte's surname.  Oh its silent.
Just say's Charlotte, so that was a waste of time sadly.
Anyway she gave me the name of a gentleman in Headley called John Owen Smith who very kindly send me a download of other people researching the same family.  Unfortnately for me today I have a broken micro filter on my Sky conncetion,so I can't download any material.  I must be jinxed!!!
I was so excited at the prospect of discovering Charlotte's surname.
Never mind. Back to the drawing board I guess- lost.

Offline janan

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Re: COURTNAGE family, Lurgashall/Bepon
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 11 July 10 18:27 BST (UK) »
No surname!??  That is unbelieveable, how frustating >:( Hopefully you will be able to download the stuff from John soon and maybe get somewhere.

Keep me posted
Jan ;)

ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline cardiffbay

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Re: COURTNAGE family, Lurgashall/Bepon
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 11 July 10 20:09 BST (UK) »
Thank you Jan.
As soon as I am able to access it I will definitely let you know what he has sent.  Can't wait now, being too impatient.
I am so so disappointed about that Birth Certificate I can't tell you how much.
However,  you do come across these stumbling blocks, but I have such faith Jan and determination, I will eventually find it.
IGI aside, I know for an absolute certainty that Charlotte and Henry Jnr were definitely not married in Headley because John tells me their local History Soceity have stripped the register. I am not sure what surrounding parishes there are, but obviously the only way to search for it would be a parish by parish church search?
Speak to you soon.
With Kind Regards

Lesley

Offline janan

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Re: COURTNAGE family, Lurgashall/Bepon
« Reply #35 on: Sunday 11 July 10 20:27 BST (UK) »
The Hampshire Genealogical Society has a Hampshire Marriage Index 1538 - 1837

http://www.hgs-online.org.uk/research.htm

so they may be able to find the marriage for you.

Good luck

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge