Thomas/Evans Llanfair Clydogau

[skills]

Hi what you say matches my research. Margaret was my grandmother and the link back to Clase is solid. Where I get unstuck is finding details of Ann and John's marriage. I also can't trace him before 1881 - a marriage certificate would be gold dust. I had a similar problem with another branch of the family until a chance finding of a base child opened doors.
Look forward to hearing from you

[sarenid]

Hi skills,
I suppose they did marry? both surnames are Thomas. I only throw it out because if this ann thomas is the sister of Rachel Thomas, my grgr grandmother she almost certainly didn't.  The first indication of any father for my gr grandfather appears on a marriage certificate as edward thomas deceased.  The baptism listed on LGI gives Rachel thomas as the only parent and in1871 she is listed as unmarried with two sons.

I think it would be possible to get the birth certificate of Herbert J thomas as according to the 1891 census he was born in 1882 in Llansamlet.  Between apr-Jun 1881 and Apr-Jun 1882 there was only two herbert J - both Herbert John - registered.  One in Pontypridd and one in Swansea.  Swansea was the registration centre for Llansamlet.  Obviously this would only go some way to confirm Ann Thomas's maiden name.

I have had a brief look and like you can find no obvious marriage between ann thomas and john thomas.  but i will keep looking.

regards Sarenid

[sarenid]

hi,

do you have any family history on Herbert John because i found a death record for a herbert John in Pontypridd oct-dec 1910.  His age at death was listed as 29. this would fit with the birth record in Swansea at apr-Jun 1881.  I can find no record at all of him in the 1911 census.
regards
sarenid

[skills]

Herbert John Thomas died in the Rhondda (Pontypridd) district in 1910. The birth record in Swansea is almost certainly him and I have just sent off for his birth certificate ( should have done this ages ago!!)
All the census report show Ann as the wife of John Thomas (who died 19/9/1895) so they presumably married. She was a lot older than him some 7 years, which was unusual.
Plod on!

[skills]

I have the birth certificate of Herbert John Thomas - the son of Ann and John Thomas. It confirms that her maiden name was Thomas.
my family bible says
John Thomas married Ann nee Thomas on July 14th 1877 at Welsh Baptist Chapel Llandeilo.
No name of chapel is in the Bible.
He was born in April 1854 and she was born in Feb. 1842
John was the third child of Herbert and Margaret Thomas.
His siblings were William 1850
                          Catherine 1852
                          Elizabeth 1856
All born in Llandeilo I have failed to find any more information on the siblings as children
Although Ann thomas had not been married before she had an illegitimate child no details other than Mam Gelli mentioning it.

Mam Gelli is my grandmother -the daughter of Ann and Thomas.

[sarenid]

This looks increasingly like your ann Thomas and my ann Thomas the sister of my grgr grandmother are the same.  I expect you looked for a marriage index entry but the nearest I came to one was June 1878 - on the basis Llandilo registration would be Llandilofawr would it have been registered so late?  If one could find the marriage certificate it would be possible to find the name of Ann Thomas's father. 

Certainly, Rachel's first two sons were illegitimate - although I have never attempted t find the birth certificates on the basis there are rather a lot of David and Daniel Thomases.  I think one of the half sisters - see 1851 - also may have had an illegitmate child as there appears to be an Elizabeth Evans age 1 on the 1851 census listed as  a daughter but this if you look at the image it appears to have been altered in an attempt to make sense of the family.

I did do a scan of thomases baptised in the llanfair area but none register a mother only called Anne.

any way  I shall have another look.
regards sarenid

[skills]

this is a message from one of my cousins

Thanks for your e mail Re Rachel Thomas. some connection  Mam Gelli wore a  ring and locket with a connection to a cousin Rachel. Rachel's son was Jack Jenkins a police officer. When Mam Gelli died in 1967 the ring and locket were returned to Jack's family.Somewhere in my memory Rachel lived in Tonyrefail and Jack was stationed in Gorseinon. Jack was married and had a son called Clyde.Possible that Rachel wasMam Gelli's cousin.

Mam Gelli is Margaret Thomas ( Ann and John's daughter)

Also in the 1871 census there is a Rachel Thomas age 31 living in Silvermines llanfairclydogau with a son David age 9 and Daniel age 3

In 1861 Rachel was servant aged 24 in Pantyffynon Cynwylcaio near llandovery

Seranid - What is you link to this family and was there a Rachel a cousin of my grandmother called Jenkins

Cheers Skills

[sarenid]

Hi
David Thomas in the 1871 census was my gr grandfather.  I have traced him through to 1911.  He died in the Senghenydd pit disaster of October 1913.  He had 6 children, the first called Rachel died within a year of birth.  The only son david Glyndwr died of Tuberculosis in 1930.  The remaining 4 daughters all married my grandmother was the eldest Sarah Ann Thomas.

I have the marriage certificate of his marriage to Mary Ann Williams in 1895 and the address given is the same as that for him in 1891.  At that time he was living with Rachel (mother) and brothers Daniel and William.  He and Daniel were miners.  Rachel died 28 May 1901 and I have found her in the 1901 census living in Aberdare with William.  I have never found a reference to Rachel Thomas in 1861 census but assumed she was probably living in Llanfair Clydogau and so likely she was noted on the missing one for that area.   I also have never found any reference to her in 1881 census.  Have searched under just about anything I could think of but she has never appear.  I think David Thomas was probably working away and boarding somewhere so he is very difficult to trace.   the only reference to any father is an Edward Thomas (deceased) on David thomas's Marriage Certificate.  She is listed as a widow on the 1891 census.

But I have no reference either to a Jack or Jenkins.  All three brothers David Daniel and William were miners.  I have not found a trace in respect of Daniel passed 1891 but I have discovered the 1911 census I think for William through a 2nd cousin who told me his wife was called Blodwen. 

These cousins also verbally confirmed the link back to Rachel's parents being Ann and David Thomas but could give me no details of their marriage or any other information.  The Evans link came from the census and this family bible which listed dates of birth for Mary Evans, Rachel Thomas, Anne Thomas, Margaret Thomas, David Thomas and all David Thomas's children as well as deaths for Rachel Thomas elder and younger (baby of David and Mary ann) also date of buriel for David Thomas.  It is some 4 weeks after the disaster. 

Could the Rachel Thomas mother of Jack have come from the other Thomas side.  It seems quite a common name in Wales.  Both David Thomas's mother and May Ann william's mother was called Rachel so I am not sure which side they named the baby after!

regards Sarenid