Why was he named Holland?

[libby9]

My 4xgrandfather Thomas James Hargreaves born Bailiff Bridge c. 1784, married Mary Armistead born circa 1786 Priestley Green, at St John's Halifax (29/11/1802).

Thomas and Mary had five known children

Rachel baptised 1805 born Southowram
William baptised 1807 born Illingworth
George baptised 1809 born Illingworth
Simon baptised 1811 born Illingworth
Holland (my 3xgrandfather) baptised 1814 Halifax.

I have traced Mary Armistead's ancestry (not found any Holland's)

I am at a standstill with Thomas James as I've been unable to positively identify his parents, and as Holland is an unusual choice for a first name, I thought maybe it was the surname of a grandmother, but I've not found a Hargreaves/Holland marriage.  

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why Holland would be chosen as a first name, as it does seem a strange choice considering his siblings had regular names.

Thanks

[posteria]

Hello

On the online records which I have access to, the first four baptisms all indicate that the father was called Thomas Hargreaves and the mother was called Mary. None of them mention a middle name of James nor do they indicate that Mary was called Armistead.

The 1802 marriage states that Thomas Hargreaves married Mary Armistead. He did not have a middle name specified.

The baptism record for Holland indicates that his father was called James Hargreaves and his mother was called Mary. There is no mention of the father having a first name of Thomas nor does it specify that Mary was called Armistead.

Unless you have some other definite documentary evidence, it seems to me to be possible that Holland was not a sibling of the others and it could be questionable as to whether his mother was Mary Armistead.

posteria

[CaroleW]

Did Holland die or emigrate before 1841 as there are no census records for him

[libby9]

Hi CaroleW,

Thanks for your interest in my post.

Holland married Ann Priestley in 1832 at St Peter's Leeds.  Holland and Ann had three children all born in Leeds.

William born 1834

Martha Ann born 1835

Mary born 1840 (my ggrandmother)

In Dec 1840 Holland sailed to America, arriving Jan 1841.  Soon after, Holland's wife Ann died, and in 1851 William and Mary were living with Holland's parents, who by this time were living in Leeds.  Martha was 'in service'.

Hi Posteria, 

In answer your questions.

As stated above Holland's children were listed as grandchildren to Thomas (James) and Mary in 1851 (Class: HO107; Piece: 2320; Folio: 456; Page: 28), also William was with them in 1841.

Holland's baptism can be found on the igi - an extracted record, his father is named Thomas James.

Holland's brother, Simon, was transported to Australia in 1829 and I have lots of info on him.  After Simon received his ticket of leave he married Mary Ann Gordon.  Simon and Mary had six children, all of whom appear to have been named after Simon, his parents and siblings.

1. Thomas Holland 1841.
2. William John 1842.
3. James Joseph 1844.
4. Simon Solomon 1846.
5. Mary Ann Rachel
6. George Job 1850.

Mary Armistead's father was Simon Armistead.

A few months ago I was contacted by a professional historian who had been commissioned by York Castle Museum (where Simon was tried and imprisoned) to do a new display about some of York Castles past felons'.  This historian chose Simon as one of the felons to research.  She (the historian) researched Simon's family in Yorkshire, she also visited Aus to research his life there and found documented evidence which substantiated my research ie. Simon and Holland were brothers, and Simon's parents were Thomas Hargreaves and Mary Armistead.

It is possible the igi entry naming Holland's father as Thomas James is incorrect, and he had only the one first name, Thomas.  However there's no doubt that Holland's parents were Thomas Hargreaves and Mary Armistead.

Thanks again to you both for your interest.

[posteria]

That seems very thorough and must be correct but ....

Holland's baptism can be found on the igi - an extracted record, his father is named Thomas James.

The parish register entry which appears on findmypast (courtesy of Calderdale Family History Society) states that Holland’s father was called James Hargreaves, whose occupation was Cartwright. The name Thomas does not appear on this record.

The marriage of Thomas Hargreaves to Mary Armistead in 1802 (from the same source) states that Thomas was a Carpenter.

I suppose that Thomas must have varied his occupation (and his name ?) during the twelve year period.

posteria

[libby9]

That seems very thorough and must be correct but ....

The parish register entry which appears on findmypast (courtesy of Calderdale Family History Society) states that Holland’s father was called James Hargreaves, whose occupation was Cartwright. The name Thomas does not appear on this record.
The marriage of Thomas Hargreaves to Mary Armistead in 1802 (from the same source) states that Thomas was a Carpenter.
I suppose that Thomas must have varied his occupation (and his name ?) during the twelve year period.
posteria

Hi again,

On the 1841 and 51 censuses Thomas' occ. is listed as Wheelwright, either the three trades were interchangeable titles, or Thomas was unsure what his job description was!

Added info I forgot to mention, I have copies of Mary's birth cert, and Martha, William and Mary's marriage cert's - all name Holland as their father.  In 1841, Rachel Hargreaves illigitimate daughter Mary Ann, was also living with Thomas and Mary, and in 1851 she was living them as Mary Ann Craven, a widow.  So I think there's no doubt that Holland was sibling of Simon, Rachel, William and George, and son of Thomas Hargreaves and Mary Armistead.

Hope this clears thing up.

Any ideas on why my 4xgrandfather was given the name Holland?  I would so like to get to the bottom of it.

[dobfarm]

Hello Libby,
a bit of fun even if its a false trail.


What do you know?

The Thomas in the census son parents living in Bailiff bridge birth c 1784 ish

(I have not Looked)
from Wyke one can roll down into Bailiff Bridge and there seems to be a family in that area in the 1600's of Hargreaves

Item 
 Click here to explore the full catalogue for this collection 
Location help Calderdale GB 203 
Catalogue reference number help KM:701 
Extent help 2 items 
Title help Wyke. 
Date help 18 Apr 1636 
Description help Sale
1 John Graive, of Woodroide, in Wike, clothier
2 james hargreaves, of Wike, clothier
Property: close of land called Caplandes, with appurtenances in Wike, and a close called Preistenfflatt, with appurtenances in Wike.
Witnesses, Michael Drake, Williaam Nettleton, John Wilson, John Kyshay.
Also bond from John Grave of Woodrow in Wyke to james hargreaves for performance of the covenant in- the sale
KM:701/1


for now

regards Dobby

[duckweed]

A Surname as a first name is usually from the female side, for instance I have John Bullivant married Martha Brown and names Son Brown Bullivant. He dies in infancy and his brother calls one of his sons Brown. Similarily I have a Lemon Attlesey called after the female line and his son likewise.

[libby9]

Hi Dobby,

It would be fantastic if the James Hargreaves mentioned is my ancestor.  Thanks so much for the info.