Author Topic: Another mystery John OLIVER  (Read 1929 times)

Offline Penholder

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Another mystery John OLIVER
« on: Friday 25 September 09 16:49 BST (UK) »
On 24th December 1842 John OLIVER & Caroline PHILLIPS were married at Camrose.   John said he was of full age and that his father was a blacksmith called John OLIVER.   The only person I have found to fit the bill is my 3 X great grandfather John OLIVER who was indeed a blacksmith and lived nearby in Talbenny (see previous post).

John OLIVER junior seems to have been born c 1822, which would predate the marriage of John OLIVER senior to Mary DAVIES in 1823.

From the census returns of 1851 & 1861 John junior said he was born in Steynton, but then in 1871 he said he was born in Walton West.   I haven't been able to identify him in 1841.    I also haven't found his baptism in either Steynton, Walton West or Talbenny.

So, was he really the son of John OLIVER from Talbenny and if so, why didn't he become a blacksmith like all the other sons?  Was he the child of a previous marriage or possibly illegitimate?   In either case, who was his mother?   

Any thoughts on the matter or information regarding this man will be very welcome.

Regards,

Diana
Hakes - Piddington, Northants; Bucks
Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth - Piddington, Northants
Bonner - Warwickshire & Leicestershire
Caughlin - Clonmore Co. Wicklow/Carlow
Muzzell - Sussex
Jones - Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood - Devon
Shutt - Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James - Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham, Bramman, Billings & Watmough - Nottinghamshire

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Another mystery John OLIVER
« Reply #1 on: Friday 25 September 09 17:07 BST (UK) »
Could he have been Mary Davies illegitimate son and took the Oliver surname when she married John Oliver
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Penholder

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Re: Another mystery John OLIVER
« Reply #2 on: Friday 25 September 09 17:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Carole

Thank you for that suggestion.   I haven't recorded such a baptism from the Talbenny register, but then I suppose I wasn't looking for it!   I will have to double check next time I'm in Haverfordwest.

Some of the nieces and nephews of Thomas DAVIES, Mary's brother, are wrongly entered under the surname DAVIES in the 1841 census but there isn't a John sadly.   I will have to see if I can find him under DAVIES elsewhere.

Thanks once again,

Diana
Hakes - Piddington, Northants; Bucks
Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth - Piddington, Northants
Bonner - Warwickshire & Leicestershire
Caughlin - Clonmore Co. Wicklow/Carlow
Muzzell - Sussex
Jones - Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood - Devon
Shutt - Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James - Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham, Bramman, Billings & Watmough - Nottinghamshire

Offline Christy

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Re: Another mystery John OLIVER
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 16 January 16 09:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi Diana
John OLIVER and Caroline were my GGG Grandparents.  I am descended from their eldest son William (Edward) OLIVER born 5 Jan 1844 at Marloes.
Would love to hear how you are related.

Regards
Chris
New Zealand
Watson, Abbott (Mary Le Bone, London)
Kendrick, (Chatteris, Cambs)
Lucas (South Hill area, Cornwall)
Terry (Lydd, Kent)
Philp (St Andrews, Fife, Scot)
Oliver, Morgans (Marloes, Pembrokeshire, Wales)
Rankin, Burns, Murdoch (Aryshire, Scotland)
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Offline Penholder

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Re: Another mystery John OLIVER
« Reply #4 on: Monday 18 January 16 18:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi Chris

Have we been in touch before?!   The quick answer to your question is that I'm not certain that I am related.

The longer reply is that when your John OLIVER married Caroline PHILLIPS he said his father was a blacksmith called John OLIVER.   I am descended from a blacksmith called John OLIVER.   He and his wife, Mary DAVIES, lived in Talbenny, which isn't that far from Marloes.   They are my 3 x great grandparents.   As far as I can see they did not have a son called John but if he isn't their son then whose is he?

My three possibilities are as follows:

- Your John came from a previous marriage of my John
- Your John was the illegitimate son of my John
- Your John comes from another family entirely

If you have any information that would help to clear this up I'd be really grateful.

I have the newspaper reports of the death of your John.   If you don't have them and would like them, please PM me with your email and I will send them on.

Best wishes,

Diana
Hakes - Piddington, Northants; Bucks
Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth - Piddington, Northants
Bonner - Warwickshire & Leicestershire
Caughlin - Clonmore Co. Wicklow/Carlow
Muzzell - Sussex
Jones - Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood - Devon
Shutt - Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James - Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham, Bramman, Billings & Watmough - Nottinghamshire