39th Regiment of Foot

[km1971]

Hi Sandra

The 39th is correct. The regiment was in the Crimea a few years before, but he is not on the medal roll. And I cannot see the marriage on FreeBMD.

Hard to say what the next step should be.

Ken

[MaureenM]

I am returning to this thread with further news of the Poole family and their military history.
My ancestor Thomas Poole was my first entry point who became a Lt Col in 39th after moving from the 22nd.
His brother John Henry lived longer and also rose to the rank of Lt Col. remaining in 22 nd Cheshires all his career. retiring on full pay and attending Wellington's funeral.

The records seem to show that these 2 brothers had a third brother, George, also a soldier who died before 1851 leaving 2 children which John Henry  remembered  in his will.

From John Henry's wedding certificate (in 1845) I found that their father, John Poole, was quartermaster for the 22 nd . I understand that this was usually commissioned from the  ranks.  Would that be enough to explain the entry of both John Henry and Thomas as ensigns without their seeming to purchase the rank? Thomas joined up in 1805, John Henry in 1814. George I cannot trace.

I would be grateful for some guidance as to where I can research John Poole, quartermaster, further. I don't think the 22nd was at Waterloo but they must have been somewhere interesting!


Maureen

[km1971]

Hi Maureen

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/13972/pages/49

Lots of commissions and promotions were made 'without purchase' during the wars with France. They would have been by recommendation, so having a father serving as an officer would have helped.

The 22nd Regiment were in India and Mauritius during the Napoleonic Wars. They briefly had a 2nd Battalion raised in early 1814, and disbanded later in the year, after Napoleon was sent to Elba.

Ken

[MaureenM]

Dear Ken,

Thank you for your help and quick response.
I suspect a promotion to Quartermaster from Quartermaster Serjeant was a big thing and it was probably better to move regiment ie away from the rankers who knew you too well.

The way this family rose through the ranks must indicate some character - and the luck of wartime service. My husband is reading through Sharpe at present ( a post- op joy) and was disappointed to find him "almost" landing on Mauritius at the time the 22nd were there!

So I must go on to investigate the 67th foot & find out how these transfers happened - job application or head hunting?

Thomas applied for a transfer to 39 th to get to India. Perhaps the John Senior was in India, told great stories / made a small fortune himself,  and Thomas wanted some of the same
Maureen

[terry_conroy]

Hi Helen,

I am a descendent of Mary Rose Dilly and I am eager to receive any scrap of information about her and George McGrath. Your post, and a Mary's death notice in the Bathurst Free Press in 1850, threw some light on some nebulous family folklore about a female French descendent who refused to emigrate to the United States because of fear of  `Red Indians' and instead coming to New South Wales.
Thanks

[Zep1]

Hello Helen and Terry

George R and Marie Rose McGRATH are my 5x great-grandparents - I was wondering if you had any further information on where in France Marie Rose was from, where she and George met, and where in Ireland George was born?

Thank you,
Zep

[maxswan]

Hello Ken

Hope you can nelp;
My GGgrandfather DANIEL MARTIN joined the 39th foot in Tralee on 2nd June 1827 served in N.S.W 4yrs. I think as soon as he joined up.  Then went to India for 16 yrs  he joined the 80 th  1 st Mar. 1846.  Would like to know what ship he came to Australia and what ship he went to India.
Am going to India in Dec.  Is there a Museum where they have some info. on campaign against the Rajah of Coorg 1834 and campaign against Gawlior present in the action of Maharajpore 29th Dec.1843.  He served in India for 16 yrs.

Kind regards Max


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[km1971]

Hi Max

The musters and paylists will be the most important source as soldiers pay was reduced while they were at sea, as food was provided. Whereas when at home their pay included an amount for buying their own food.  It will also include the date he landed. If his record says he served in NSW/Australia for 4 years this includes time at sea. So he is likely to have sailed from Home in 1828. Unfortunately the musters are not on line so you will need a researcher, if the time of your post indicates a location problem.

Most small parties of reinforcements – the main body of the 39th left England in 1825 – would have acted as guards on convict ships. But musters often give the name of the ship for each individual soldier. Failing that their museum may have a copy of their historical records. This should tell you the names of the ships sailing on a particular date. Or you could try online newspaper archives. You need to repeat the process for 1832 when they sailed for India.

I would not recommend visiting Coorg and Gwalior unescorted, due to the risks of crime and dangerous snakes wherever there is long grass. Plus I doubt that the sites will be even signposted. If you google battlefield tours for both Coorg and Gawlior you should get details of local experts. And you should also consider joining fibis.org. They have a forum for asking questions. You should find members who have visited these places.

The 39th Foot became part of the Dorsets, and their museum may have information about guided tours. They probably will not match your timescales, but they may have local contacts in India you can use - http://www.keepmilitarymuseum.org/

For general background you should go on the London Gazette archive and search for the despatches that the General in command would have sent home. These will tell you routes used in the campaigns, plus the names of other regiments brigaded with the 39th Regiment, and are alternative sources. They often give local landmarks, as most campaigns were often a series of skirmishes over many days, rather than a set piece battle on a single day.

Ken

Added... the Sophia convict ship left Dublin on 7 June 1828 with guards from the 39th Regiment on board. It arrived in NSW on 25 January 1829. There may have been others.

[zedddddd]

Hi Ken,
Would really appreciate your help with tracing my ancestors movements prior to 1825. 
According to his attestation, Thomas Smith was born in 1793 in the city of Worcester and was working as a Taylor when he was recruited to the 39th Dorcetshire Regiment in 1807.
He was likely recruited to the second battalion, as i understand the first battalion was in Malta around this time..
I have a record of his promotion to Corporal on the 25th Aug 1814 and on the 25 July 1815 promotion to sergeant.  I am able to trace his time in Ireland from 1825 until his departure from Australia in 1832, through the limited pay muster records we have in the National Library of Australia.  He seems to have had an interesting life, travelling the world and eventually reuniting with his children who stayed in Sydney while he was serving in India as Hospital sergeant.  He left India in Nov 1834 and sent to England where he was discharged in July 1835. 
His two eldest daughters Emma and Elizabeth were born to his wife Ann around 1824 and 1825 while he was stationed somewhere in Ireland.  I would love to find a record of Ann and his children and of their passage to Australia.  He came aboard the "Mariner" on convict guard duties on the 23rd May 1827 and i presume his family was aboard as well. 
I will have to make the trip to Kew one day, but in the meantime i hope you can offer some insight. 

Kind Regards,

Nick