Author Topic: Allen of Camus, Glenleary etc- Macoquin, Dunboe, Coleraine  (Read 9009 times)

Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 46,036
    • View Profile
Re: Allen of Camus, Glenleary etc- Macoquin, Dunboe, Coleraine
« Reply #36 on: Saturday 25 March 17 16:38 GMT (UK) »
The minister would not have lied about the bride's father but would have recorded what he was told (although her father's name might have been common knowledge). Clergy, especially Presbyterian ones, would have had no problem putting illegitimate in a register or leaving the father's name blank. There would have been absolutely NO reason for the minister to fabricate a father.

If Isabella was Sarah Jane Allen's daughter then this is probably a brother/half-brother-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02662/1981127.pdf
Please do NOT ask for lookups by Personal Message.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 46,036
    • View Profile
Re: Allen of Camus, Glenleary etc- Macoquin, Dunboe, Coleraine
« Reply #37 on: Saturday 25 March 17 16:48 GMT (UK) »
Just realised problem looking at date-

Her mother was Sarah Jane Allen. Isabella was born or baptised 27 April 1873 acc to Macosquin register. I haven't found a birth cert. Sarah Allen may be the same as Sarah Allen living with her daughter Jane Connolly in Cullyvenny in 1911. I am still inclined to think that the minister was tactfully concealing paternity by filling in the father as John Smith; as in "A.N. Unknown" but more opaque

Sarah Allen's daughter Jane was born 26 Apr.1873-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03201/2173781.pdf
Please do NOT ask for lookups by Personal Message.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 46,036
    • View Profile
Re: Allen of Camus, Glenleary etc- Macoquin, Dunboe, Coleraine
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 25 March 17 17:12 GMT (UK) »
It's possible that Isabella was registered as Jane in 1873 because in 1882 a daughter Jane was born (this fits with Jane Conolly's age in 1911)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Somerset/Coolyvenny/587858
Please do NOT ask for lookups by Personal Message.

Offline mcmichael

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 10
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Allen of Camus, Glenleary etc- Macoquin, Dunboe, Coleraine
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 25 March 17 18:58 GMT (UK) »
Hello, we're still following this avidly, after "butting in" a while ago in respect of our interest in Robert Allen of Glenleary and the possible  (father-daughter?) link with our Margaret Ann[e] Allen (sometimes 'Peggy', never 'Maggie'......). And our interest is because she became Margaret/Peggy McMichael and now rests [alone] in the smallest graveyard in front of Macosquin Pres. Ch.

Anyway, I know the thread is on a different tack just now - equally intriguing - but reading the discussion about (Isa-)Bella Allen and her marriage cert, I checked pictures my husband took in Macosquin Presbyterian last May, and (I am sure LyndeL and aghadowey will have seen this - attempting photo upload) - but it struck me the name of the female witness on the church register was a "Mary McMichael." Now someone called Mary McMichael was -  definitely - the firstborn of Peggy (ne้ Allen, daughter of Robert) with Daniel McMichael. And - relying on Peggy Allen's marriage cert - Mary is a granddaughter of someone called "Robert Allen, a farmer, of Glenleary". (Granted, as Lindel has said, the possibility of two Robert Allens in Glenleary in the 1850s onwards isn't impossible though we haven't found two distinct evidence groups either...)

Mary herself was born 1870 and baptised in Macosquin Presbyterian Church where the family then resided til the 1890s. So, she's born 3 yrs before Bella, then married 2 years after her and is (conjectural) at one with the witness at Bella's marriage. The dates are not bad. 

If the tempting links and our suppositions (that Peggy may just possibly be a sister of Sarah albeit 'missing' from other records discussed above) are right, then this could theoretically be Mary witnessing her cousin's wedding. Which may be further circumstantial evidence for a link, ie Robert Allen's & Betty Henry's family, with Peggy McMichael's descendants. This is added to the fact, mentioned above, that her second sister [Bessie McMichael] bore the middle name 'Henry'.

Except for that "Father - John Smith" reference which does rather upset things. So my husband will be very interested how the "John Smith" dimension is resolved.... As I say - intriguing.


Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 46,036
    • View Profile
Re: Allen of Camus, Glenleary etc- Macoquin, Dunboe, Coleraine
« Reply #40 on: Monday 27 March 17 20:45 BST (UK) »
Thought that Linde would have responded to the last few posts by now as she;d been online  :-\

There is only evidence of ONE Robert Allen in Glenleary at that time. Since no Allens were in Glenleary or Camus in 1831 it's more than likely that Robert (Glenleary) and William (Camus) came from elsewhere. Ballinrees (or a neighbouring townland) is the most likely possibility and going from the death letters I have there would seem to be some sort of friendship if not connection. This is more likely considering the 1844 marriage of Robert Allen & Bessie Henry in 2nd Dunboe.

I'm not sure why 'John Smith' being the father of Sarah Allen's daughter Isabella upsets anything. Sarah's 3 known children where illegitimate (not clear if 'John Smith' would be father to either of the other children). Unfortunately too many possible local candidates to be Isabella's father based on name alone.

After putting together an extensive Allen family tree from available records it does seem as though the Allens in the area might all be connected and they certainly intermarried several times.
Please do NOT ask for lookups by Personal Message.

Offline sarah

  • Administrator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 16,420
  • RootsChat Co-Founder
    • View Profile
Re: Allen of Camus, Glenleary etc- Macoquin, Dunboe, Coleraine
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 10:50 BST (UK) »
I am posting this on behalf of Linde who had sent the message to me in error - sorry I have been offline  for a few days.

Quote
Oh. I don't know. My goodness. When ancestors set out to confuse their descendants, they can make things really difficult! To go back to the Maggie McMichael issue. Griffiths' has a McMicken in Camus. Probably Daniel's family. There is a William Allen in Camus. Robert Allen's holding seems to be definitely in Glenleary in all the places i have seen any note of it. It is on the edge of Glenleary however. Maggie in newspaper report, not Peggy.
I am not sure we are winning on these people, do any of you see something that i am missing?

Linde to reply to your topics on RootsChat you must click on the blue "reply" button at the bottom of the thread  ;)

Regards

Sarah
For Help on how to post an Image on RootsChat
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=459330.0

If you have been helped on RootsChat be sure to spread the word!

UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 46,036
    • View Profile
Re: Allen of Camus, Glenleary etc- Macoquin, Dunboe, Coleraine
« Reply #42 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 12:15 BST (UK) »
Quote
To go back to the Maggie McMichael issue. Griffiths' has a McMicken in Camus. Probably Daniel's family.

NO!

A Margaret McMieken is listed in Camus in Griffith's.

Daniel McMichael's 2nd marriage gives his father's name as Daniel.
Please do NOT ask for lookups by Personal Message.

Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 46,036
    • View Profile
Re: Allen of Camus, Glenleary etc- Macoquin, Dunboe, Coleraine
« Reply #43 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 21:52 BST (UK) »
Quote
To go back to the Maggie McMichael issue. Griffiths' has a McMicken in Camus. Probably Daniel's family. There is a William Allen in Camus. Robert Allen's holding seems to be definitely in Glenleary in all the places i have seen any note of it. It is on the edge of Glenleary however. Maggie in newspaper report, not Peggy.

Through ALL the valuation revision books Robert Allen is in Glenleary until the property changed to James Allen (changed again before 1915 but we know that James Allen & family moved to Canada 1913) although until around 1871 William Allen also had right of fishing for salmon under Camus. William Allen is in Camus until a change in 1893 to John Allen.

All of the above is supported by church & vital records which place Robert Allen in Glenleary & William Allen in Camus.
Please do NOT ask for lookups by Personal Message.

Offline LindeL

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Allen of Camus, Glenleary etc- Macoquin, Dunboe, Coleraine
« Reply #44 on: Wednesday 29 March 17 08:43 BST (UK) »
Yes so all we have to explain (or decide to stop worrying about) is the newspaper report that both Daniel and Maggie were from Camus. Here is a theory, Maggie indeed a daughter of Robert but living with William's family to help look after children, spin flax, go to school, whatever. If William and Robert were brothers. Had William's wife died perhaps?    Just a theory. And of course newspapers get things wrong!