Author Topic: Shaw Cum Donnington  (Read 6444 times)

Offline StevieSteve

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Re: Shaw Cum Donnington
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 19 November 17 16:29 GMT (UK) »
Afternoon,  newburychap.

Tacking on to an old thread, do those diaries have an online presence at all, would you know?

If not, would you happen to know whether they'd be likely to have any entries referring to Thomas King and/or family , mealman d1807, who I believe from the 1815 census might have been  based at West Mills.

TIA

Steve
Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

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Offline newburychap

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Re: Shaw Cum Donnington
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 19 November 17 20:18 GMT (UK) »
Tacking on to an old thread, do those diaries have an online presence at all, would you know?

If not, would you happen to know whether they'd be likely to have any entries referring to Thomas King and/or family , mealman d1807, who I believe from the 1815 census might have been  based at West Mills.

Nothing online as far as I know.

Extensive extracts from the Purdue diary were printed in the Newbury Weekly News in 1886 - which is what I have, not the complete diary. I makes for fascinating reading, but it is not a day to day account and includes lots about events distant from Newbury. There are occasional mentions of Newbury folk, but no Thomas King. It covers the period 1766-1803.

The Toomer Journal relates to events during his years as Mayor of Newbury (1791/2, 1801/2 and 1814/5) - lots of Newbury names mainly in lists (signatories of a petition, invitees to the Mayor's feast, publicans, charity school boys, almost random). There is a Thomas King - landlord of The Globe - and a John King, mealman but no Thomas King, mealman.

It's pure chance that they both mention the same event - Toomer sitting as magistrate on a case involving Purdue's brother in 1801.
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Offline StevieSteve

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Re: Shaw Cum Donnington
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 19 November 17 22:27 GMT (UK) »
Thanks nc

Think John is one of the sons of Thomas. Charles inherited the meal sacks (whatever they are) but seems to have died youngish.


Now seriously off-topic, I saw a lantern slide of West Mills when I was at BRO on Friday. Looked to be behind/next to St Nicholas. Are there any remnants?


Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

Offline janjim

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Re: Shaw Cum Donnington
« Reply #21 on: Monday 20 November 17 00:38 GMT (UK) »


Hi Newbury chap, well seems like years ago, we have been and gone to the Bacon Arms, and never met up with you, which was a shame.

Anyway getting back to Walter New of the Swan Inn, you mention William IV Beerhouse, wondering if you have more information on Walter, in these years gone by.   There were several News running Pubs in Newbury, in the late 1800's and early 1900's,  thought there could be more information available now on this Walter New.

Jan


 
I'm afraid I have tunnel vision when it comes to pubs - as the Swan is not in Newbury I have not collected any data unless the same newspaper item etc includes reference to a Newbury pub.  Its a policy that has made the workload a bit more manageable but I do wonder at times if I shouldn't have collected all licensing material for the area (in case I spread out to neigbouring parishes at some future date). The Swan is one of the pubs that are within a couple of hundred yards of Newbury's boundaries which would be the first to be added to my area of interest if I ever expand it.

The only data I have on a Walter New is from 1908 - 1910, when he was landlord of the William IV, a beerhouse  in Bartholomew St - which is still standing even though it was closed as a pub in 1910.

Let me know when you are coming to Newbury and perhaps we can meet up.
New, Thorn, Bird, Ruffey, Bosley, Belcher- Newbury Berkshire
Haynes/Haines - Much Birch Herefordshire, Monmouth Wales
Kearn/Watkins- Llanllwchaiarn/Newtown, Wales, Tyberton, Herefordshire
Gwilliam - Monmouth Wales, Herefordshire
Collier, Jackson - Salford, Manchester Lancashire
Saunders - Middlesex, Devon
Benson - Edinburgh, Scotland
Callander - Falkirk, Scotland
Ambrose - Liverpool, Manchester Lancashire, Canada
Timms, Elliman - Oxfordshire, Warwickshire
Ellison - Manchester/Portsmouth Hampshir

Offline newburychap

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Re: Shaw Cum Donnington
« Reply #22 on: Monday 20 November 17 10:16 GMT (UK) »
Thanks nc

Think John is one of the sons of Thomas. Charles inherited the meal sacks (whatever they are) but seems to have died youngish.
John was mentioned as one of the men selected for the grand jury at the town quarter sessions on 9 Oct 1801.

Now seriously off-topic, I saw a lantern slide of West Mills when I was at BRO on Friday. Looked to be behind/next to St Nicholas. Are there any remnants?

West Mills (the street) is still there, someone from the 1820s would still recognise it though there have been major changes - notably the loss of both sets of mills. One of the cottages was recently dendro-dated to 1476.
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Offline newburychap

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Re: Shaw Cum Donnington
« Reply #23 on: Monday 20 November 17 11:25 GMT (UK) »
Anyway getting back to Walter New of the Swan Inn, you mention William IV Beerhouse, wondering if you have more information on Walter, in these years gone by.   There were several News running Pubs in Newbury, in the late 1800's and early 1900's,  thought there could be more information available now on this Walter New.

Sorry Jan, I haven't done much work on pubs for a few years - too busy on WW1 research into the 338 men and one woman on the Newbury war memorial.

Walter New was landlord of the William IV from 1907 to 1910. In 1910 the pub was referred to the county licensing authority by the Newbury magistrates. They felt it should be closed as 'redundant'. At the time Newbury had a pub for every 145 inhabitants (including children) - well above the national average of one for every 375 people.  Closure would attract compensation payments for the owners and licensee.  According to the report Walter New was already planning to leave and the owners (South Berks Brewery) had no objection to the closure - it seems that everyone was happy for it to go and so it went. I suspect it was really the brewery that was happy to see this pub go to placate the magistrates, one that they felt they could readily sacrifice. Odds are they offered Walter another, better pub to get him onside.

The William IV was one of those beer houses started up in the period when magistrates lost control over beer licences (1830-1869) and was tiny - one tap room 14ft 10in by 10 ft sales of 1.5 barrels of beer a week. There was another South Berks pub across the road - 13 yards and 2 feet away - the toilets were out at the back (go out of the front door and round the side to get to them). All in all it was always going to be in the brewery's mind as a sacrificial lamb in a era when magistrates were keen to reduce pub numbers.

If Walter moved on to the Swan it would have been a 'promotion' up the landlord career ladder.
Latest project - www.westberkshirewarmemorials.org.uk
Currently researching:
 Newbury pubs  & inns - the buildings, breweries and publican families.
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Offline StevieSteve

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Re: Shaw Cum Donnington
« Reply #24 on: Monday 20 November 17 12:39 GMT (UK) »
Thanks very much for the info and letting me take up your time, newburychap

I'll let you get back to the Memorial  :)
Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

Offline janjim

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Re: Shaw Cum Donnington
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 31 July 18 08:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Newbury chap,
I know it's a long time ago, you were working on the Beerhouses, wonder if you could put me in the right direction for list of Pubs etc.and Licensees.  Finding more and more of our family connections (Brindley family now) involved in the Pub scene in Newbury.

Jan


Anyway getting back to Walter New of the Swan Inn, you mention William IV Beerhouse, wondering if you have more information on Walter, in these years gone by.   There were several News running Pubs in Newbury, in the late 1800's and early 1900's,  thought there could be more information available now on this Walter New.

Sorry Jan, I haven't done much work on pubs for a few years - too busy on WW1 research into the 338 men and one woman on the Newbury war memorial.

Walter New was landlord of the William IV from 1907 to 1910. In 1910 the pub was referred to the county licensing authority by the Newbury magistrates. They felt it should be closed as 'redundant'. At the time Newbury had a pub for every 145 inhabitants (including children) - well above the national average of one for every 375 people.  Closure would attract compensation payments for the owners and licensee.  According to the report Walter New was already planning to leave and the owners (South Berks Brewery) had no objection to the closure - it seems that everyone was happy for it to go and so it went. I suspect it was really the brewery that was happy to see this pub go to placate the magistrates, one that they felt they could readily sacrifice. Odds are they offered Walter another, better pub to get him onside.

The William IV was one of those beer houses started up in the period when magistrates lost control over beer licences (1830-1869) and was tiny - one tap room 14ft 10in by 10 ft sales of 1.5 barrels of beer a week. There was another South Berks pub across the road - 13 yards and 2 feet away - the toilets were out at the back (go out of the front door and round the side to get to them). All in all it was always going to be in the brewery's mind as a sacrificial lamb in a era when magistrates were keen to reduce pub numbers.

If Walter moved on to the Swan it would have been a 'promotion' up the landlord career ladder.
New, Thorn, Bird, Ruffey, Bosley, Belcher- Newbury Berkshire
Haynes/Haines - Much Birch Herefordshire, Monmouth Wales
Kearn/Watkins- Llanllwchaiarn/Newtown, Wales, Tyberton, Herefordshire
Gwilliam - Monmouth Wales, Herefordshire
Collier, Jackson - Salford, Manchester Lancashire
Saunders - Middlesex, Devon
Benson - Edinburgh, Scotland
Callander - Falkirk, Scotland
Ambrose - Liverpool, Manchester Lancashire, Canada
Timms, Elliman - Oxfordshire, Warwickshire
Ellison - Manchester/Portsmouth Hampshir

Offline newburychap

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Re: Shaw Cum Donnington
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 14 August 18 13:01 BST (UK) »
Hi Newbury chap,
I know it's a long time ago, you were working on the Beerhouses, wonder if you could put me in the right direction for list of Pubs etc.and Licensees.  Finding more and more of our family connections (Brindley family now) involved in the Pub scene in Newbury.

Jan
Hello Jan - The only online lists of pubs I can think of are in trade directories, several of which are available at Ancestry or on the Leicester University Historical Directories site - they cover the 1850s to 1930s pretty well and usually include licensee and pub names. However, beer houses do not get such good coverage, they usually omit the name of the beerhouse. Daniel Brindley is shown as the proprietor of a beer house in Hampton Road and as a beer retailer & fishmonger (I fear that I always think fish when the Brindley name crops up) in his two entries in the 1895 Kelly's Directory of Berkshire, which I cannot see online with a quick search - but I see you can download a pdf for 5.95. The address is a dead giveaway, he was landlord of the Red House, which is still in business.

There are other lists, mainly on paper, but the earliest one with names of pubs is from 1761 and was printed in Walter Money's 1887 History of Newbury. This is a superb book and can be found as a free digital download, however, Money did make a transcription error and omitted the Three Tuns from his list; the original is in the Berkshire Record Office. Coverage of the surviving licensing records starts in the 1970s.
Latest project - www.westberkshirewarmemorials.org.uk
Currently researching:
 Newbury pubs  & inns - the buildings, breweries and publican families.
Member of Newbury District Field Club - www.ndfc.org.uk