Williams_Aberystwyth & James family

[MalNZ]

Hi

Would be most grateful for any information on any of the following, but particularly the relationship of Margaret to the James's, possibly a sister.  David Edwards may also be related. Her marriage date & place are unknown.

Will of Margaret Williams, 26/5/1842 (dod  29/12/1849) of Pier Street, Aberystwyth, widow of Thomas Williams, Banker. As far as is known there were no children of this marriage.

Beneficiaries
Richard James, Llandovery
John James, Penlanforgan, parish Llanwrtyd.
Elizabeth Jones nee James, ?Courtaewyydd?, Llanfair ar y bryn
David James, ?Erwbalei?, Llandwrtyd
Rees James, Glangweche, p. Llandilfawr
Rees Rees, Llandovery, & Anne his wife nee James
Richard James (jn), Lamb Inn, Llandovery (of whom is he the junior?)

Executors  Major Thomas Williams (ex 70th Regiment  Bengal Native) (her husband's nephew, died Jan. 1852 and buried in Ystrad Meurig)
                   David Edwards, Surgeon, Aberystwyth.

Cheers

Mal_NZ

[osprey]

some bits to start you off. I reckon Richard james is jnr to his father Richard.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llandingad/Pigot1830.html

1851 Noyadd Green, Llandovery, Llandingat, Carmarthenshire HO107/2470 folio 324 pg 16
Richard James head widower 66 Sherriff officer b. Llanfairarybryn

1851 Market St, Llandovery HO107/2470 folio 341 pg 26
Richard James head mar 44 innkeeper & farmer of 39 acres employing one man b. Llandovery
Anne wife 44 d, Llandyfeisant
Margaret dau 21 b. Llandovery
Elizabeth dau 19 b. Llandovery
Richard son 10 b. Llandovery
Susan dau 8 b. Llandovery
John Daniel visitor mar 33 miner b. Devonshire Christs(?)
Margaret Daniel visitor mar 21 b. Llanfairarybryn
plus a servant

extracted baptism from IGI  batch C099371 for Llandingat
Richard bp 6/12/1807 son of Richard & Margaret James

1851 Glangweche, Llandilofawr, Carms HO107/2471 folio 529 pg 4
Rees James head mar 52 g lab b. Llanfairarybryn
Catherine wife 57 b. Llandebie
John son 24 carpenter b. Llandebie

Beginning to look as if Llanfairarybryn might be important.

[osprey]

Good grief! Found Elizabeth Jones at the first attempt! 

1851 Cwrtnewydd, Llanfairarybryn HO107/2470 folio 413 pg 14
Elizabeth Jones head widow 62 annuitant
Thomas son 25 miner in lead mine
Mary dau 20 house servant
Ann Williams lodger 18 dressmaker
all born Llanfairarybryn

Elizabeth James married Morgan Jones 5/12/1818 Llanfairarybryn

Their children appear in IGI batch C100791 for Pentretygwyn Independent in Llanfairarybryn

[osprey]

1851 Penlanforgan, Hamlet of Llechweddor, Llanwrtyd, Breconshire HO107/2470 folio 470 pg 10
John James head mar 65 ag lab b. Brecs, Llanwrtyd
Mary wife 64 b. Carms, Llanfairarybryn
David Davies grandson 6 b. Llanfairarybryn

wonder if the enumerator got his dittos mixed up here. Both John & Mary show as 'not born in county' in 1841, but John's birthplace is shown as the same as person above him in 1851.

 

[osprey]

1851 Errw'rbaily, Llechweddor, Llanwrtyd, Brecs HO107/2470 folio 469 pg 8
David James head mar 54 farmer of 83 acres
Catherine wife 42
Rees son 11
Catherine Jones 19 gen servant
all born Llanwrtyd

By 1861 David has a new wife and has increased the size of the farm - thanks to the inheritance, perhaps?

1861 Errw'rbaily, Llechweddor, Llanwrtyd RG9/4124 folio 20 pg 2
David James head mar 66 farmer of 148 acres with sheepwalk b. Carms, Llanfairarybryn
Mary wife 40 b. Llanwrtyd
Rhys son 21 b. Llanwrtyd
John Williams 64 cowman b. Llangammarch
John Jones 20 carter b. Llanwrtyd
Jane Jones 22 house servant b. Cardiganshire, Caron

there's a possible death registered Llandovery for Catherine James in dec qtr 1859
which would make this look a likely marriage reg
David James march qtr 1861 Llandovery with Mary Jones on the same page
The marriage cert would give name & occupation of father.

I've not found any definite trace of this family in the parish records for Llandingat or Llanfairarybryn, and I'm wondering if they were non-conformist. There certainly was a strong non-conformist movement in the area, not surprising with William Williams of Pantycelyn in the neighbourhood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Williams_Pantycelyn

I know you're new to the site but I've noticed that you've visited the site each time I've posted, so assume you've read my findings. Any chance of some feedback? These haven't been the easiest of searches with common names and no dates of birth, so I hope I haven't been wasting my time.

 

[MalNZ]

Hi Osprey,

Please bear with me, I do appreciate your info. This side of the family is all new to me and I have to put all the info into my database so that I can get my head around it.  I was confused through my earlier attempts at getting the details of Margaret Williams's will sorted as there are James's in Llanfihangel GG with many of the same names and about the same time. Some even fitted provided they had shifted to the various places named in the will. I joined here because of my uncertainty - and now you have me on the right track.

I am puzzled over the C099371 entry for Richard - could not find him although there is a Richard for 1840.

Do you have the references that you mention for the 1841 census. I can look them up in the town library when I'm next there.

Evan Williams is the son of David Williams, a methodist exhorter, so no doubt non-conformist views were held by the family - though his brother "Y Hen Syr" of Ystradmeurig school returned to the conformist fold.

I must now order two key certificates while the NZ dollar is still high. Should have them in about 10 days. These hopefully should confirm many of the data that are now in my system.

Cheers

Mal_NZ

[osprey]

I should have explained the joys of the IGI for most of Wales pre 1813. It is indexed as if the names are patronymics, whether they were or no, and at this late date, not many are. And it's just the way the IGI has indexed them, they are not that way in the original record.

So to find Richard's baptism, search in that batch for Richard by first name only. He will come up as Richard Richards, but father's name is Richard James.

You can see from that that finding baptisms on the IGI can be a little bit of a problem as you need to have an idea where someone was born, then check each entry for a particular first name to see if the father's surname matches. And be thankful for a not so common first name like Richard.

1841 ref for John & Mary is HO107/1365/23 folio 11 pg 8 - in hamlet of Llechweddor, Llanwrtyd although Ancestry has the parish as Llanwryd.

The family baptisms might not appear in parish records if they were non-conformist, but the marriages should. I've got 1813 onwards, but only the males are indexed.

I thought I had spotted Rees & Ann, but now have mislaid them. I'll have another look.

Do you have Margaret on the 1841? Does she show as not born in county?

 

 

[osprey]

this could be them in 1841

Cross Lane, Llandingat HO107/1386/7 folio 29 pg 6
Rees Rees 35 labourer
Ann 30
Elizabeth 8
Margaret 2

Which would tie in with the marriage of Rees Rees & Anne James 16/12/1832 in Llandingat. And could well tie in with the baptism of Ann daughter of Richard & Margaret James 18/8/1805 IGI batch C099371, sister of Richard junior, as ages in 1841 rounded down.

I can't spot the couple in 1851. They seem to reappear in 1861 and later, still in Cross Lane, but Ann is several years younger and it could be a second marriage for Rees. Or there is a widowed Ann Rees in Queen St as well.

 

[osprey]

1851 Queen St, Aberystwyth HO107/2485 folio 300 pg 54
David Edwards head unm 72 surgeon b. Cardiganshire, Lledrod
Margaret Jenkins unm 20 house servant b. Aberystwyth

I've found Margaret Williams in 1841 and she is indeed 'not born in county' so could indeed be part of the family from Llanfairarybryn.

I've had a quick look at a site which has coverage of non-conformist records but with no success
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/index.php