Author Topic: Pattersons of Forfar and Kinnell  (Read 1993 times)

Offline Jay0777

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Pattersons of Forfar and Kinnell
« on: Saturday 07 November 09 20:17 GMT (UK) »
Researching the Patterson family from Forfar and Kinnell. Have quite a bit of information if anyone needs it. This family originate from Latheron, though I do not have much information on the Latheron side!

Jay
Pollock, Thomson, Kane, Hutton, Johnston, McGeehan, Sweeney Moan, Patterson, Gilchrist, Davidson, Silver, Neilson, Porterfield, Meyrick

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Offline jen5525

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Re: Pattersons of Forfar and Kinnell
« Reply #1 on: Friday 09 December 16 13:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jay,

My name is Jennifer and I'm researching this family as well; since there appear to be quite a number of people by the name of Paterson/Patterson from that area, I'm not sure I'm researching the same line as you.  I would love any info you have to see if it matches up with the tree I have.  Right now, the furthest I go back on my tree is to James Paterson/Patterson (b. 1767  unknown location in Scotland, d. 1842 Muirside, Kinnell, burial at Kinnell Church). He married Jean Cothill/Cuthill in 1796 in Kinnell (she was from Kinnell, he from Carmyllie at the time). 

They had quite a number of children. I'm descended from their daughter Jean (b. 3 Apr 1808 in Carmyllie).  The first 6 children (b. between 1796 & 1806) were born in Kinnell; the next 6 (b. between 1806 & 1817) were born in in Carmyllie.  Family move back to Kinnell between then and 1841, because I have that census, and James & Jean died and were buried there.

I would love to find out birth place and parents for James (and Jean) and siblings for them.
Stewart in Kirkden, Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland; Londonderry, Ireland; South Africa
Neilson in Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland
Baillie in Peebles, Paisley, Edinburgh Scotland
Anderson in Angus/Forfarshire & Kincardineshire Scotland
Forbes in Kirkden Forfarshire & Kincardineshire, Scotland
Patterson/Paterson in Carmyllie & Kirkden, Forfarshire Scotland
Calhoun in Tyrone, Ireland & Jersey City, New Jersey
Mitchard in Liverpool England & New Jersey

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Offline Jay0777

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Re: Pattersons of Forfar and Kinne
« Reply #2 on: Friday 09 December 16 22:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jennifer, we are indeed researching the same family. I have a fair bit of information which I will pass on to you but will have to look out my notes. I have attached some info I got from someone else who, as it turned out, was researching the wrong family. I also have a photo of James and Jeans 3 sons George, Francis and William and also of George's extended family (this is the line I'm interested in) Not sure how to get a copy to you as the site advises not giving out email addresses.

Anyhoo here is some info for you. I myself have followed down from George Patterson marked ***** James and Jeans son and will look out my notes on them if you want them? Let me know.


Alexander Paterson married on 01.01.1763, Latheron, Caithness to Elizabeth Sutherland - 4 children (possibly 7):

John (b. 22.04.1765, Latheron, Caithness)
*James (b. 11.04. 1767, Latheron, Caithness; d. 23.02.1842, Muirside of Kinnell, Angus)
Francis (14.08.1769, Latheron, Caithness) - married Janet Sutherland on 13.04.1785
Jean (b. 1772, Latheron, Caithness)
Jean (b. 04.1775, Latheron, Caithness) ?
Christy (b. 03.1780, Latheron, Caithness) ?
Isobal (b. 23.03.1788, Latheron, Caithness) ?

*James married on 12.12.1796, Kinnell, Angus to Jean Cothill (b. 03.05.1774, Kinnell, Angus; d. 04.08.1843, Muirside of Kinnell, Angus) 12 children:

Robert (b. 03.02.1797, Kinnell, Angus; d. bef. 1842)
Alexander (b. 16.09.1798, Kinnell, Angus; d. bef. 1812)
Thomas (b. 03.02.1800, Kinnell, Angus; d. aft. 1881)
*John (b. 02.03.1802, Kinnell, Angus)
Francis (b. 19.06.1804, Kinnell, Angus; d. 1891, Arbroath, Angus)
James (b. 01.06.1806, Kinnell, Angus)
Jean (b. 09.04.1807, Carmyllie, Angus; d. aft. 1881)
David (b. 13.05.1810, Carmyllie, Angus)
Alexander (b. 26.05.1812, Carmyllie, Angus; d. 18.08.1880, Midlothian, Edinburgh)
Mary (b. 20.11.1814, Carmyllie, Angus; d. bef. 1842)
George (b. 22.04.1817, Carmyllie, Angus; d. 01.07.1897, Newmountainhill, Forfar, Angus) *****
William (b. 22.04.1817, Carmyllie, Angus; d. 03.03.1902, Muirside of Kinnell)

*John married on 07.08.1824, Kirkden, Angus to Jean Grant (b. abt. 1805, Kirkden, Angus) 6 children:

Sarah (b. 03.11.1824, Kirkden, Angus)
James (b. 11.06.1826, Kirkden, Angus)
Jean (b. 06.07.1828, Kirkden, Angus)
David (b. 06.07.1830, Kirkden, Angus)
*Alexander (b. 26.10.1832, Kirkden, Angus; d. bef 1897)
Margaret (b. 14.03.1835, Kirkden, Angus)

*Alexander married on 01.06.1862, Monifieth, Angus to Marjory Yeaman (b. 23.01.1834, Aberlemno, Angus; d. bef 1897) - 6 children:

Mary (b. 18.10.1862, Dundee)
John (b. 21.09.1864, Dundee)
Marjory (b. 25.09.1866, Dundee)
David Yeaman (b. 25.09.1869, Dundee)
Jane Yeaman (06.01.1875, Dundee; d. 21.10.1963, Brechin, Angus)
*Isabella (b. 25.11.1875, Dundee; d. 12.04.1947, Ethiebeaton, Angus)

*Isabella married on 09.06.1897, Arbroath, Angus to Alexander Donald (b. 13.02.1872, Kinnell, Angus; d. 12.04.1947, Ethiebeaton, Angus) 14 children.


Hope this makes sense to you. Let me know if you want the information I have on George.

Jay
Pollock, Thomson, Kane, Hutton, Johnston, McGeehan, Sweeney Moan, Patterson, Gilchrist, Davidson, Silver, Neilson, Porterfield, Meyrick

Offline jen5525

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Re: Pattersons of Forfar and Kinnell
« Reply #3 on: Friday 09 December 16 23:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jay,

I'm so excited by this! It looks like we are distantly related. So cool!  I'm going to PM you my email, so check on RootsChat under the My Messages tab, so we can exchange emails.  The info you have given so far definitely helps, on the James Paterson side; still working on the Cothill/Cuthill side.  I did not have Jean Cothill's birth info, so would love more info on that since you do have a birthdate for her listed.

Also, I've done a fair amount of searching into Jean & James' son, George.  He married Elizabeth Farquhar, correct?  Do you have info on a 2nd marriage to a Mary Wyllie by any chance?  I also think I have some information on George's twin brother William as well.

Best,
Jennifer

Stewart in Kirkden, Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland; Londonderry, Ireland; South Africa
Neilson in Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland
Baillie in Peebles, Paisley, Edinburgh Scotland
Anderson in Angus/Forfarshire & Kincardineshire Scotland
Forbes in Kirkden Forfarshire & Kincardineshire, Scotland
Patterson/Paterson in Carmyllie & Kirkden, Forfarshire Scotland
Calhoun in Tyrone, Ireland & Jersey City, New Jersey
Mitchard in Liverpool England & New Jersey

Offline breaky

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Re: Pattersons of Forfar and Kinnell
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 10 December 16 20:22 GMT (UK) »
You may have found her already(?) - but I can see a Mary Ann Cuthill with Patterson and Wyllie given as her 'other surnames' on SP who died aged 86 in 1896 at Forfar. (Just had a look through an old search list I had).

Offline jen5525

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Re: Pattersons of Forfar and Kinnell
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 11 December 16 14:32 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Breaky,

Thanks!  I did not have the death record, but just downloaded it, and it is her. Are you researching the same family by any chance?  If so, you may already have this, but let me know if there is anything below that you don't have and I'm happy to share it.

Interestingly, Mary's death is indexed under all 3 surnames (Wyllie, Cuthill and Patterson).  I was interested in the record because I am researching the lines of Jean Cuthill (also listed as Cothill in records) and James Patterson (also Paterson).  My direct line (as I said above) is from their daughter Jean Patterson (married David Forbes), but am trying to fill in info for all of her siblings as well. 

I am particularly interested in her brother George, as I've found 2 people who appear to be distant cousins to me (Jay here in rootchat; someone else in ancestry who is a DNA match to me).  I know George married Elisabeth (Betsy/Betty) Farquhar and have some of those census', but found one later in 1881, where he is listed in the same location as previous census', but this time with his brother Thomas, spouse Mary (not Betsy); the census details are:

Location: Gate Lodge Cemetery, Forfar, Angus, Scotland
George (63)
Mary (70), wife
Jemima (23), daughter
Margaret (11), granddaughter
Bella Hutton (sp?) (5), granddaughter
Eliza Patterson (16?), granddaughter
Thos Patterson (82), widow, brother

So, that lead me to search for Betsy Farquhar's death btwn 1871 & 1881 (which I found in 1876); then for marriage to Mary Wyllie afterwards (which I found in 1877).  FYI...I cannot find a birth record for Mary under the surname Wyllie (nor under Cuthill); but I see in the death record for Mary that it looks like she may be illegitimate.

Here is where the surprising info comes!  In the marriage record, George and Mary are listed as cousins!  His parents are Jean Cuthill and James Patterson, hers are Elspet (Elspeth) Cuthill and James Wyllie. 

Now, I'm assuming from this that Elspet and Jean are sisters?  Though I suppose Elspet and Jean could be cousins, which would make George and Mary more distant cousins?

That is my question and dilemma, since try as I might, I can not find birth info for Jean to assess parentage.  I can't find Elspet/Elspeth either in birth/baptism records.  The earliest record I find is a marriage record of her to a John Calder on 20 Jan 1828, Forfar,Angus,Scotland.  I then find them together in the 1841 census in Forfar as follows:

James Hendry   58
John Calder   65
Ilspeth Colder   59
Mary Colder   29

By the 1851 census, Elspeth is living with Mary, so John must have died.  I find Elspeth and Mary together in 1861 census. I also have a eath record for Elpeth 27 Mar 1863 in Forfar, age 84, widow of John Calder.  Her parents are listed as Robert Cothill and Margaret Butchard.  Informant listed as George Patterson, nephew. 

So, this leads me to further conclusion that Elspeth and Jean must be sisters.  If they were cousins then George would not be her nephew, but her cousin as well..correct?  This would then mean that Robert and Margaret are also Jean's parents (or at least one of them would be and the other a step parent). 

Let me know if you want/need me to share any of this.

jen


Stewart in Kirkden, Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland; Londonderry, Ireland; South Africa
Neilson in Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland
Baillie in Peebles, Paisley, Edinburgh Scotland
Anderson in Angus/Forfarshire & Kincardineshire Scotland
Forbes in Kirkden Forfarshire & Kincardineshire, Scotland
Patterson/Paterson in Carmyllie & Kirkden, Forfarshire Scotland
Calhoun in Tyrone, Ireland & Jersey City, New Jersey
Mitchard in Liverpool England & New Jersey

Offline Jay0777

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Re: Pattersons of Forfar and Kinnell
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 13 December 16 22:03 GMT (UK) »
Jennifer, just read your last post and vaguely remember the names of Jean Cothill Patterson's parents being Robert Cothill and Mary White. I can't find the paperwork connected to this so I may well be wrong.

Jay
Pollock, Thomson, Kane, Hutton, Johnston, McGeehan, Sweeney Moan, Patterson, Gilchrist, Davidson, Silver, Neilson, Porterfield, Meyrick

Offline jen5525

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Re: Pattersons of Forfar and Kinnell
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 14 December 16 04:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jay,

thanks so much for that last bit of information!  I've finally broken through that wall on finding Jean's birth record!  The spelling of the names have been inconsistent, from Cuthill to Cothill to Coathill (in 1 record) and Cuthills (in 1 other).  However, I still was unable to find Jean on Scotland's People, despite using these various combinations.  And most of the ones I was able to find had Robert Cuthill as the father and Margaret Butchart (1 has Richart) as the mother.  Knowing that Jean was the sister of Elspet, it was likely that they shared the father, since they had the same last name

So with your information, I tried searching the town of Kinnell in the time frame she should have been born 1770 to 1776, with just Jean as first name and White as the parent name...and BINGO.

Jean COTTHILL (2 T's).  Father: Robert, Mother: Mary White.  And, this revealed several more siblings!

Robert Cothill/Cuthill & Mary White:

David Cothill (b. 26 May 1770)
Robert Cotthill (b. 27 Apr 1772)
Jean Cotthill (b. 3 Apr 1774)


Robert Cothill/Cuthill & Margaret Butchart (m. Aug 1778):

Elspet (b. 1779)-parent names on death record are Robert Cothill & Margaret Butchart.  still cannot find her baptism record

James Cuthill (b. 29 Jan 1781)-to Margaret Richart

Grizel Cuthill (b. 12 Mar 1783)- to Margaret Butchart

(no name recorded) Cotthill (b. 24 Jun 1785)- to Margaret Butchard

Now there are also these, which I'm not sure are the same Robert Cothill (they are also in Kinnell). If you look at the dates, they either precede children of Mary White or fall after those of Margaret Butchart; I did find a marriage for Robert Cothill and Margaret Butchart, but not for Mary White

COTHILL MARGARET (14 Feb 1767)  ROB. COTHILL/JEAN BRUICE; don't find a marriage for these names

COTHILL ELISABETH (11 Dec 1790) ROBT. COTHILL/ISOBEL BAILLIE; marriage date for parents is 10 Dec 1790.  This could be Robert & Mary's son, Robert (b. 1772) since he'd be 18 at this time.

Would love your thoughts and input on this!

Jen
Stewart in Kirkden, Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland; Londonderry, Ireland; South Africa
Neilson in Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland
Baillie in Peebles, Paisley, Edinburgh Scotland
Anderson in Angus/Forfarshire & Kincardineshire Scotland
Forbes in Kirkden Forfarshire & Kincardineshire, Scotland
Patterson/Paterson in Carmyllie & Kirkden, Forfarshire Scotland
Calhoun in Tyrone, Ireland & Jersey City, New Jersey
Mitchard in Liverpool England & New Jersey

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Pattersons of Forfar and Kinnell
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 14 December 16 07:56 GMT (UK) »
The spelling of the names have been inconsistent, from Cuthill to Cothill to Coathill (in 1 record) and Cuthills (in 1 other).  However, I still was unable to find Jean on Scotland's People, despite using these various combinations. 
It's always useful to use wildcards. When you find a name that has variations, try that. In your case c*t*l should produce the goods. And Butchart has many variations too.

BTW who were the parents of Mary Wyllie who married George?
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith