Jewish Ancestors in Dublin

[HarrysGirl2]

Hi,

I'm new to RootsChat, so I'm bound to make some mistakes, which I apologize now for. 

I'm searching for my Gt. Grandfather, his name was Tobias Freedman & he was Jewish.  His Hebrew name was Tobia.  His son Louis Freedman (my grandfather) first appears in the UK when he married Russian born Rachel Simon in Leeds in 1890, where they had their first son, Gedaliah/Daniel/Dal/David/Dave.  Louis's Hebrew name was Yahuda. 

I have found a Louis Friedman travelling from Hamburg on 2nd Nov 1889.  He gave his residence as Lomza, Russland (Russia)  His occupation: Hawker - his age was 23 (Born about 1866) I'm pretty certain that this is my grandfather as his family name has been found as Friedman or Freedman & has now evolved to Freeman. 

EDIT:-
This Louis from Lomza has now been eliminated:

I 'thought' I'd found my grandfather on a shipping list in November 1889 from Hamburg - destination Hull.  The timing was just right to marry his first wife Rachel in Leeds, in April 1890. This Louis Friedman was from LOMZA. His occupation was given in German as Handler = Dealer/Hawker his age was 23 & there were no other Friedman's on the list.  I tried everything to link him to my grandfather ... but nothing. 

So, I followed the guy who was next in line, listed after Louis from Lomza on the shipping list.  His name was Max Grawecki & he was aged 20 & also from Lomza. Of course, Max could have been simply the next guy in line & nothing to do with Louis, but I searched the UK hoping to find a marriage for Max & perhaps Louis was a witness or perhaps they boarded together, but I found nothing of Max. 

This went on for 6 months.  Then a friend thru another friend in the US, found that Louis & Max were together... they arrived together in New York just before Christmas 1889, after changing ships in Liverpool :-(

End of Edit
-----------------------------

By 1901 Louis & Rachel are now living in Liverpool & also have the following children, all born in Liverpool:  Hyman/Harry born 1893.  Nellie/Helen/Lillian born 1894. Samuel born 1896.  Elias born 1898.  Isaac born 1900.  In spring 1904 Rachel Simon died.  She was 40.

About 1904/5 Louis marries my grandmother, Russian born, Rebecca Cohen (nee Cohen & formally Cohen)  They have 2 more children:  Teri born 1905 & my father, Harry, born 1907.  On the 1911 census, Rebecca is found at Liverpool's Royal Infirmary & she died just 2 weeks later of cancer.  She was 36.  Another child (Abraham) has also appeared on the 1911 census & Louis states that Abraham is his son.  But, he was born in Russia in 1895 & I assume that he must be Rebecca's son to her 1st husband & so, Louis's stepson.  Abraham remains a brick wall on my research, as I have lost track of him after the 1911 census.

My main quest at the moment is to find my Gt. Grandfather Tobias.  The only mention of him is on Louis & Rachel's marriage certificate & on the Jewish authorization certificate.  Tobias is not stated as being deceased on this M.C in 1890 & his occupation is also a Hawker as is Louis's (own account)

I have not found any Tobias Friedman/Freedman/Freeman in the UK.  However, I have found a Tobias Freedman who died in Dublin, Ireland on 29th April 1902.  He lived at - 2, Emorville Square, Dublin.  He was 72, which puts his birth year as 1830 & he would have been 36 when Louis was born.  I have learned that this Tobias Freedman was living at this address on the 1901 census with Faige Freedman (Wife perhaps ?) 

I have also found in Dublin:-

Isaac Freedman, born 10/3/1854 in Smeksna, Kovno, Russia. (Date of File 1892)
Isaac lived  (Mar 1891-Apr 1892) at: 37, Lombard St West, Dublin.
Isaac's Parents are Tobias  & Fege Freedman, both of Russian Nationality Fege is close to Faige & I have not found any other Tobias who could fit. 

I would be interested to hear from anybody who has Tobias & Fege/Faige or Isaac in their family tree.

Thank you for reading this message.

Harrysgirl2

[JustinL]

Hello and welocome to Rootschat,

Your Louis's birthplace was consistently reported as being Germany. This would rule out the Louis from Lomza that you have fopund.

Kovno was the most northwestern gubernia of the Russian Empire and part of the Pale of Settlement. It also bordered directly with East Prussia. The city of Kovno is Kaunas in Lithuania.

It is certainly true that most of Ireland's Jewish population came from Lithuania. It can also not be ruled out that Tobias was able to cross the border illegally into East Prussia (did you ever see 'Who Do You Think You Are?' on David Suchet?).

Feiga/Feige was a very common Yiddish girl's forename. It is derived from the Yiddish word for 'bird' (Feygl or Foygl), and is a calque of the Hebrew name Tsipora.

I shall investigate some of the online Jewish records.

Justin

[HarrysGirl2]

Hello again,

I'm still looking for my gt grandfather Tobias Friedman - Freedman - Freeman.  I've given my grandfather (Louis Friedman's) information in my first post above, but I'm still having no luck tracing his father Tobias.  I've not found Tobias anywhere in the UK & I'm drawn back to this Tobias Freedman who died in Dublin in April 1902 aged 72.  I have this Tobias Freedman's death certificate & the DC gives his address as being 2, Emorville Square Dublin.

But,  confusingly, on the 1901 Dublin census, there is a 'Julius' Freedman aged 65 living at Emorville Square with Faiga Freedman aged 64.  They are both boarding with the Masliansky family. Philip Mesliansky was mentioned in Joyce's Ulysses & oddly the names Philip Masliansky & Julius Masliansky are given for the same person in Joyce's book.  Ben Masliansky (who was Philip's son Abraham, on the 1901 census) went to the US & changed his name to Maslan & I am in contact with a descendant of his, a Rabbi who lives in Texas.

I don't know if the 1901 Dublin census was mis-transcribed & Julius Freedman is actually Tobias Freedman & the age of 65 is wrong as the Tobias Freedman who died in 1902 was age 72.  Or, was this Julius Freedman aged 65 on the 1901 census perhaps Tobias Freedman's  brother ?

If anyone has a link to this Freedman family in Dublin I would love to hear from you...  preferably before I go insane.

Also, just to confuse you more... there were two more Freedman families living in Lombard Street West around the same time... were they connected to each other & or to Tobias/Julius Freedman?  If you know anything about these families, please contact me.

Below are the details of the two families living in Lombard Street West.  We feel these two families are linked to each other, but as yet, we can't find the link.

Family Nș 1. are Two Brothers...  "Aaron, Marcus"   &    "Israel, Wolf" & their parents:-

"Aaron, Marcus Freedman" was born in the Russian Empire- Weksna/Meksna, Kovno.  20/5/1872.
(Between March-1901-June 1902) He lived at: 5, Lombard St West (Date of Naturalisation File - June 1902)
Married - 2 children:   **Tobias, aged 2   and Flora Gerta  aged 6 months (This Toby went to South Africa)
Occupation:  Draper

His Brother:- "Israel, Wolf Freedman" was born 19/3/1880. (Date of Nat file. Nov 1902)  Single, occupation Draper.

The Parents of these brothers are:- Daniel Freedman and Libe Freedman, both Russian.  (No D.O.B. for parents)

-----------------------
Family Nș 2.  We also found Nat Records at Kew for:-
Isaac Freedman, born 10/3/1854 in Smeksna, Kovno, Russia. (Date of Nat File 1892)
Isaac lived (Between Mar 1891-Apr 1892) at: 37, Lombard St West, Dublin  (same street & same time as "Aaron, Marcus Freedman" Lived there)
Isaac's Parents are Tobias and Fege Freedman"  both of  Russian Nationality.
-----------------

Is Fege = Faiga ?  This is surely the same Tobias & Faiga who lived at Emorville Square... there must be a link... but where ? 

If anybody has a link to these families please contact me.


Thank you for reading this message.

HarrysGirl2

[Oaks and Acorns]

I don't know if the 1901 Dublin census was mis-transcribed

No need for confusion on this point. You can view the original handwritten 1901 Census Returns on the NAI site.

Why do you think your ancestor might be found in Dublin? Are you following a speculative hunch or do you have documentation that links?

Dara.

[HarrysGirl2]

I have the original transcript thanks Dara.  It's difficult to say if it says Tobias or Julius, it could be either, but printed version says Julius.

I'm working with a guy in Tel Aviv who is a descendant of one of the Freedman families who lived in Lombard Street West & also another guy who lives in Melbourne Aus, who is a descendant of the other family who lived in Lombard Street West.  As yet, we've found no connection to either family or to the Tobias /Julius who lived in Emorville Square.  But, we all feel strongly that there will be a connection.

My grandfather Louis, is a complete mystery & his father Tobias has not shown up anywhere in the UK, the only Tobias I've found is this Tobias who died in Dublin in 1902.  I'm searching for a link & need more info.

Thanks for your help. Do you know anything about these Freedman families Dara ?

HarrysGirl2

[aghadowey]

The 1901 census entry looks like Tubia but has been transcribed as Julia.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003807272/

[HarrysGirl2]

Thank you,

I think Tubia is another name for Tobias, is it not ?

I noticed the signature of the enumerator at the bottom was Thomas McNally & the "T" in Thomas looks similar to the "J" in Julius.  So, I think it is Tubia too.

HarrysGirl2

[Quaxer]

H G 2

I have recorded in my source work based upon The Irish Times newspaper that the edition for 12th April 1892 on Page 7 in the Police Court section that a Mr Freeman was a witness in a case. The address was given merely as Lombard Street without a number . It could possibly have been Lombard Street West.
The only details I have for No.2 Emorville Square are that it was held under lease for 900 years  and was sold in 1897 for 255 pounds.

Regards     Quaxer

[HarrysGirl2]

H G 2

I have recorded in my source work based upon The Irish Times newspaper that the edition for 12th April 1892 on Page 7 in the Police Court section that a Mr Freeman was a witness in a case. The address was given merely as Lombard Street without a number . It could possibly have been Lombard Street West.
The only details I have for No.2 Emorville Square are that it was held under lease for 900 years  and was sold in 1897 for 255 pounds.

Regards     Quaxer

Thanks for this info Quaxer.

Any tiny bit of info all helps to build up a picture & something unexpected could help find the link to these Dublin Freedman families & hopefully to my grandfather Louis.

HarrysGirl2