Ellen Rooney. St.Helens, Lancs.

[LizzieW]

The fact that Ellen's husband was living with her relatives doesn't prove she didn't run off with someone else.  My 2 x g.uncle and two of his children were living with his wife's sister and family and on the census he stated he was a widower.  In fact his wife was alive and living in another town with another man and her daughter.  She died a few years later.  I only found this out thanks to the detective work of a Rootschatter, who did a search on my 2 x g.uncle's daughter's Christian name and date of birth and found her with her mother. 

So anything is possible.

[Mojave59]

Hi Nieve,

If Holy Cross is at the bottom of Borough Road, St Helens then I think you will find it was demolished within the last couple of years.

Regards

John

That was Sacred Heart.

ellis2159

[Mojave59]

Mary, Your suggestion is another avenue for me to explore!    That will be a little job for tomorrow afternoon.  I have often wondered if transcribers miss people out purely by accident.    Nieve

St Helens Deceased site: search
Ellen Moran aged 41
Burial date 19/12/1903
Grave ref:  StHelCem/20/476.

Regards ellis2159

[Mojave59]

 Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability  Where Born Original
census
image

~~~~~~~~
 
MORAN, Michael Head Married M 66  1815 Road Contractor
 Ireland   
MORAN, Bridget Wife Married F 56  1825
 Ireland   
MORAN, John Son Single M 28  1853 Genl Lab
 St Helens
Lancashire   
MORAN, Michael Son Single M 20  1861 Genl Lab
 St Helens
Lancashire   
MORAN, Matthew Son Single M 16  1865 Genl Lab
 St Helens
Lancashire   
MORAN, Annie Daughter Single F 14  1867
 St Helens
Lancashire   
MORAN, Ellen Rooney Daughter Married F 18  1863
 St Helens
Lancashire   
ROONEY, Patrick Son In Law Married M 26  1855 Genl Lab
 Ireland   
ROONEY, John Son Single M 1  1880
 St Helens
Lancashire   

~~~~~~~~
 
RG number:
RG11 Piece:
3739  Folio:
31 Page:
14     
   
Registration District:
Prescot Sub District:
St Helens EnumerationDistrict:
 Ecclesiastical Parish:
 
   
Civil Parish:
Sutton Municipal Borough:
 Address:
110 Peasley X Lane, Sutton County:
Lancashire
 

[nieve]

Hi Everbody.    Thanks for your interest.   I have spoken to both Prescot and St.Helens registry offices this afternoon .They both discounted Warrington.   However, Prescot says he will come back to me when he has time to do a search and my cheque is in the post for St.Helens to do another search.   I saw that deceased  name on the St.Helens site and have cross checked with bmd.    The name there was Ellen Phillips Moran, age 41.   The age was  right and  I have tried to do quick check on Anc.com for 1891 and 1901 but no luck.   I am now accepting that she may have left home and children for pastures new and perhaps he was called Phillips!    If I sent for a death cert it would only actually show me who was the informant and address.   
Back to the drawing board.    Nieve

[maryalex]

Nieve,

Why did the Prescot and St. Helens registrars both discount Warrington?

Ellen was last seen alive on a census in St. Helens in 1881.  The youngest child of the family was born 1885/1886 in St. Helens.  By 1891, Patrick was in Haydock and calling himself a widower.  Patrick seems to have moved to Haydock some time between 1885/1886 and 1891.    If Ellen was dead by 1891, she could have as easily died in Haydock as in St. Helens.

I do hope you let us all know the answer to the puzzle when you have solved it.

Mary

[Mojave59]

 

[maryalex]

Nieve & Ellis 2159,

After reading Ellis 2159's  cryptic post timed at 2055 today,  I have modified the post I had made at 1915 today so that it reads as "Why did the Prescot and St. Helens registrars both discount Warrington?

Ellen was last seen alive on a census in St. Helens in 1881.  The youngest child of the family was born 1885/1886 in St. Helens.  By 1891, Patrick was in Haydock and calling himself a widower.  Patrick seems to have moved to Haydock some time between 1885/1886 and 1891.    If Ellen was dead by 1891, she could have as easily died in Haydock as in St. Helens".

You are already bearing in mind the burial which Elllis 2159 mentioned in his/her post timed at 1621 today. 

As regards discrepancies between local registrars' records and GRO records, I have read that there are many but only have personal experience of one.

Mary

[heywood]

Hello everyone,

I would wonder why Ellen would be buried as Moran rather than Rooney.

I checked 1901 and there is an Ellen Moran married to William Moran in St Helens. She is born Northwich.
There is a marriage on Free BMD for Ellen Phillips to a William Morean in Northwich.

I did mention Warrington in an earlier post as a possibility and I would agree with Mary that it seems odd that the registrars would discount that place but perhaps they don't know that the family were there in 1891.

best wishes
heywood