Ellen Rooney. St.Helens, Lancs.

[nieve]

Hi, I have just rang Warrington Registry office to be sure and they confirmed that  Haydock was definitely St.Helens.    NIeve.

[heywood]

Ah well - that's why they said that   
I was going off the 1891 census information:
registration district Warrington: sub-district Ashton in Makerfield.

What do you think about the Ellen Phillips Moran death, Nieve? It doesn't look to be your Ellen does it?

I did have a look at censuses but there are too many Ellens born 1862ish St Helens to find one if she were living with someone under another surname.

heywood

[Mojave59]

Hi, I have just rang Warrington Registry office to be sure and they confirmed that  Haydock was definitely St.Helens.    NIeve.

Have you tried:    www sthelens-connect.net
incidently i have a vested interest in the Moran name and i live off MERTON BANK
Road. St Helens

Regards ellis2159

[maryalex]

Nieve,

According to GENUKI, Haydock came under Warrington Registration District from 1837 to 1934 and  under Newton Registration District from 1834 to 1974 and has come under St. Helens Registration District since 1974. 

Did the Warrington Register Office understand that you were enquiring about a death before 1974 when you phoned them or is it that the Haydock records which used to be held in Warrington are now held in St. Helens?

Mary

[nieve]

Hi everyone, 
Mary:-
 Firstly, I have once again been in touch with Warrington.   A different lady this time who was very nice.   She still said St.Helens.   However, she did a search for me for Ellen Rooney/Moran and soundtex from 1881 to 1894 - no result.   So I await St.Helens to come back to me.
Ellis2159.
  I hadn't but I have now tried St.Helens-connect.net.   I read all the posts and I smiled when I saw what was the meaning of the expression 'Miss Keck'.   My mum called it me and her granddaughters and I have now started to call  my own granddaughter the name.   In fact my daughter only yesterday asked why I said it.    I didn't know the meaning then but I do now !    I won't tell her, she might be upset/annoyed/amused -I never can tell.
Heywood.
Thanks for your input.   
Yes, I agree.  The Ellen Phillips Moran is a non-starter but you do tend to clutch at straws but it is still very encouraging to have other people's input.   Nieve.

[heywood]

Hi Nieve,
Yes we do clutch at straws and don't want to give up 

I don't think I think ( ) that she was in an institution really but that was one of my straws for Ellen and may be another route at some time.
Earlier you said that had there been anything untoward then your grandma would have known from the pavement gossip. If this were so, you would have thought that they would have known if she ran off with the local romeo too. Going off my mother- it would have been referred to in stage whispers 
My mother never revealed her family secret- we only discovered after her death - so people do keep secrets, especially if they affected status or morals.

good luck with St Helens.

heywood

[LizzieW]

My mother was the same.  I didn't even know that her eldest (living) sister had run off with a married man until I was in my 50s and it was only a few months before my mother died, when out of the blue she decided to tell me what she knew, how she'd find an address on blotting paper  of where my aunt had been sending things to the married man so they could set up house together.  How she told her mother after my aunt left and how her mother (my gran) rushed off to find the couple in Scotland and stayed with relatives up there, before she confronted them.

Lizzie

[nieve]

Hi everyone.   Well, I have just had a  reply from St.Helens Register Office and they have been unable to trace any records that relate to my 'lady'.   I have to perhaps now accept that she must have 'done a runner' and become a 'common law wife'.   Was the grass greener?   Did she keep an eye on her children from afar and did she know that her eldest son become another casualty of W.W.1.    Thanking you all for your help and input.  Nieve.

[LizzieW]

Hi

The other thing to do is to search the 1891 census on Ancestry, just putting in her first name, no surname, year of birth (she was apparently only 15 when she married according to her age on the 1881 census and place of birth.

I did a quick search, putting in a year of birth as 1862 +/- 5 years.  If you then exclude all the ones who have children living with them, who would have been born too early for Ellen, or whilst she was with her husband, you will probably end up with quite a list, but you could pick out the ones you think most positive, if supposedly married check on FreeBMD for a marriage from about 1875 to 1891, and if there is no apparent marriage follow them up on the 1901 census. 

For instance, the first interesting one I found was called Ellen Balfe, born St. Helens about 1860, boarding with her husband Thomas Balfe, who was born in Dublin, Ireland.  No children shown.  I then went to FreeBMD to see if there was a marriage to rule out your Ellen and there was in 1886, Thomas Balfe and Ellen Elliott.

It is a time consuming exercise, but you may turn up something like I did with my 2 x g.aunt who was in a different town living with another man and posing as his wife and using his name, even though her own husband was alive and living with his wife's sister's family.  My search was made easier by another Rootschatter who found the marriage of the daughter of my 2 x g.aunt and uncle and then found her on the census with this "other" family.

Lizzie