Parrish family of Chirk

[*bunty*]

Hi,

I am descended from one of the illegitimate children of Athalia Parrish of Chirk, Denbighshire, Wales.  I was spurred to join Rootschat after the airing of the Coming Home episode on John Prescott, who is also descended from the same woman (although he is from the first son John, and I am from the second son Charles).  I wonder how many Parrish family members are out there!  My lot moved from Chirk to Staffordshire to Durham before settling in West Yorkshire.  I look forward to joining in discussions.

PS: my information differs a little from that information presented in the documentary :/

[Gadget]

Hi Bunty and Welcome 

I have a fair bit of information on the family. I'm decended from Caroline, Athalia's sister and have been researching the family for 9 years.


Caroline and her husband, John Stokes,  moved to Stafordshire in 1848/9 just after their marriage but later returned to Chirk.  Quite a few of the Stokes family settled around Normanton.


Here's something on the Co Durham end:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,395157.0.html

There are also a few threads on the Denbighshire board - relatives in Australia, etc. asking for info.


I think it is best that we stick to the facts of our family history rather than talk about the programme.


What info do you need?


Gadget

[Gadget]

Are you descended from James:  (Sorry - just seen that you are descended from Charles - in Pontefract on the later census 

1901
John Street, Eldon, Auckland St Andrew, Durham
RG13/4645/140/31
Parrish
James, 48, coal miner (Hewer) b. Wales, Chirk
Hannah, wife, 42, b. Cheshire, Macclesfield
Sam, 24, coal miner (hewer), Lancashire, Failsworth Lane, Manchester
Hannah, 12, b. Durham, Eldon
Thelia, 9, b. -do-
Rosa, 3, b. Lancashire, Moston, Manchester


Gadget


Added - also some info here:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,334992.0.html

[Pels.]

Welcome to RootsChat from me too Bunty !! 

What info do you need?

With regard to info, I wondered if the following might help you Gadget :

http://www.rootschat.com/links/07lw/

Kind regards,

Pels.

[Gadget]

Thanks for that, Pels 

It looks as if Bunty knows quite a lot already.


Gadget

[*bunty*]

I do indeed know a fair bit about the family, although not as much as I would like as I have only been researching for three years.  I am interested in the social history surrounding the Parrishes and their movements far and wide from Chirk.  I don't have a lot of information post-1911 and I am interested in tracing the family forward from the 1911 census.  I am very interested in the coal mines of Chirk, being a mining engineer myself (although at the time I studied mining I didn't realise my ancestors had such a long connections with mining).

One of the brickwalls I have yet to crack is that of James Par(r)ish b 1829, brother to Athalia and son of Thomas and Ann Par(r)ish.  He is missing (well I can't find him ) in the 1851, 1861 and 1881 census and dies in the Union Workhouse in Barnsley in 1886.  In 1871 he is single and living with his brother Jacob and his family in Woolley, YKS.

I didn't intend to discuss in any detail the Coming Home programme because I haven't actually seen it as I live in Australia - my Parrishes left Pontefract for New Zealand in the 1960s.  All I know is it exists because of messages sent by some of my Parrish cousins in the UK and that it was suggested Athalia's father was the father of her illegitimate children.  What I will say is I have spent many long hours pondering who my great great grandfather's father was.  What I have discovered is that one of the illegitimate sons of Athalia - James - was not registered under the name Parrish, but under the name James Jones, son of Richard Jones and Athalia Jones.  I suspect Richard was Athalia's next door neighbour.  James was always known as a Parrish though.

So, really just wanting to touch base with other Parrish researchers, share information and insight and see if there is anything else I can learn about the family  .

 

[Gadget]

Hi Bunty

Quite a few issues raised there 

Post-1911 research is difficult to talk about on here because of the possibility of living people being mentioned and various sensitivities. A few years ago, a cousin and I followed up  the descendants of Caroline Parish's daughter Elizabeth Stokes and her husband Henry Roberts.  I would say that those living were fairly representative of the population at large in regard to occupation, education, etc. - with, maybe, more university degrees and higher degrees.  They had dispersed fairly widely - Canada, Australia and throughout the UK. This was just one line. 

I have mainly concentrated on Caroline and her descendants but have ventured into the Durham Parishes because of their obviously close ties with my Chirk family, even into the early 1900s. I've also gone back to Thomas and his ancestors who I've managed to trace back to Madeley  - so they were originally English rather than Welsh!  My father told me that they had been pit sinkers in Shropshire/Staffordshire who had moved to Chirk in 18th century.

Re Atheliah's son James Parish/Jones, b. 1850 - very interesting information and puts a different slant on things!  A  Jones family were living next to them in Black Park on the 1851 - HO107/1993/804/8  I assume the Richard Jones would be the son, aged 19 rather than the father aged 54.  James is the one I have quoted from the 1901 in Co. Durham.

Re the other James Parish b.c. 1829.  The problem here is that there were two  both b.c. 1829 - one the son of John and Elizabeth (a)  and one the son of Thomas and Ann (b).  (i.e. cousins)

(a ) is still at home in Chirk with his parents in 1851 and with wife Mary in 1861 onwards. 

(b) is  possibly at The Lodge, Chirk  in 1851 - a groom to the Ward family. (Thomas Ward ownd Black Prk colliery at the time)  It  says b. Llangollen but  I wonder about the Llangollen birthplace as I don't see him before or afterwards as this. He is, as you say, with Jacob and Harriet in 1871 in Yorkshire. Jacob was with my 2 xgreat grandparents in Willenhall in 1851 but there is no sign of James so the Lodge one looks a strong poss.  Many of the 1861 pieces are missing/destroyed and James could be on one of these.

Regards


Gadget


Added - I assume you're familiar with Neville Hurdsman's A History of the Parish of Chirk and a later one about St Martins - mainly pre 20th century but a fair bit on the coal mines.

[*bunty*]

Thanks for your response Gadget .  I had not heard of Neville Hurdsman's A History of the Parish of Chirk until a few weeks back.  I have ordered the book and then oddly enough it has come up here.  I am pretty keen to read it, if anything to gauge how life was for my ancestors.

I have toyed with the idea that James Par(rish) was a groomsman at the Lodge in the 1851 census.  It still doesn't sit right with me, given that all Parrish men I have ever come across were coal miners (including my own grandfather).  On later census records James is a coal miner.  Still, I can't rule out that for some time he may have been a groomsman.  I know the other James (John and Mary's son) went on to marry Ann as you mentioned so this isn't my James.  I actually located each Par(r)ish sibling of Athalia's on the 1861 census and then went through the census records for that location, page by page, hoping to find James as a boarder living in the same town as one of his siblings.  No luck there, so perhaps he is on missing records. 

I too have delved into the Durham line, mostly because my lot were in Durham briefly although mine left for West Yorkshire.  I have been as comprehensive as I can with all Parrish lines because I really was curious to see how everyone had faired by 1911.  My lot were incredibly poor and the family was split and living in two different workhouses in 1911.  I must say it was quite sad to see my grandad as a 4 year old living apart from his mother.  Such a hard life.

Well, I have waxed on long enough.  Off to bury my nose in family history again .

 

[Paul]

Hi Bunty

Quite a few issues raised there 

Post-1911 research is difficult to talk about on here because of the possibility of living people being mentioned and various sensitivities. A few years ago, a cousin and I followed up  the descendants of Caroline Parish's daughter Elizabeth Stokes and her husband Henry Roberts.  I would say that those living were fairly representative of the population at large in regard to occupation, education, etc. - with, maybe, more university degrees and higher degrees.  They had dispersed fairly widely - Canada, Australia and throughout the UK. This was just one line. 

I have mainly concentrated on Caroline and her descendants but have ventured into the Durham Parishes because of their obviously close ties with my Chirk family, even into the early 1900s. I've also gone back to Thomas and his ancestors who I've managed to trace back to Madeley  - so they were originally English rather than Welsh!  My father told me that they had been pit sinkers in Shropshire/Staffordshire who had moved to Chirk in 18th century.

Re Atheliah's son James Parish/Jones, b. 1850 - very interesting information and puts a different slant on things!  A  Jones family were living next to them in Black Park on the 1851 - HO107/1993/804/8  I assume the Richard Jones would be the son, aged 19 rather than the father aged 54.  James is the one I have quoted from the 1901 in Co. Durham.

Re the other James Parish b.c. 1829.  The problem here is that there were two  both b.c. 1829 - one the son of John and Elizabeth (a)  and one the son of Thomas and Ann (b).  (i.e. cousins)

(a ) is still at home in Chirk with his parents in 1851 and with wife Mary in 1861 onwards. 

(b) is  possibly at The Lodge, Chirk  in 1851 - a groom to the Ward family. (Thomas Ward ownd Black Prk colliery at the time)  It  says b. Llangollen but  I wonder about the Llangollen birthplace as I don't see him before or afterwards as this. He is, as you say, with Jacob and Harriet in 1871 in Yorkshire. Jacob was with my 2 xgreat grandparents in Willenhall in 1851 but there is no sign of James so the Lodge one looks a strong poss.  Many of the 1861 pieces are missing/destroyed and James could be on one of these.

Regards


Gadget


Added - I assume you're familiar with Neville Hurdsman's A History of the Parish of Chirk and a later one about St Martins - mainly pre 20th century but a fair bit on the coal mines.

Hello Bridget If it helps the James Parish born 1829 who married Mary Hughes Ruabon 1858 was the son of John Parish

Paul.