Mobey/Stanley link?

[Steve G]

 No worries, Nel  I've got enough irons in the fire that I either rag at one, or else shrink away in despair, promising myself to concentrate of 'That ..... once I get time.'  Then, the person I'm talking to, about the Stanley's is much the same again. So, no one's rushing head long and going to be yelling that another should keep up.

 My first move has been to send for my missing link map. I'm just waiting for the Alan Godfrey, MBE, map of Southsea in 1896. From that, I hope to be able to pin point the Southsea brick Fields and get a better idea of the lay of the land, further back towards the time we're discussing.

 My next job is to find out the paternal names of 'my' Stanley's. Hope to manage at least the fathers without any problems.  I reckon I might well have the mothers name by the time ye get to see this post. And, we all know what can be done from there! 

 My biggest nail biter is going to be the 1911. Could the parents be old enough to show up on there? If I can crack 'Mr Stanley'? We'll be as good as home and dry. I'll play 'Mrs' by ear.

 Anyway, enough of this. Just saying it's got my blood up. I'll now drop everything else and go hunting Stanley's! 

[Steve G]

Four of Michael Stanleys brothers are living with their parents in a tent in a field in Lawrence Rd.

 And I reckon I just this minute found that field, Nel!  It appears to be just what I'm looking at, on the 1896 map. About 3/4 the way down Lawrence Rd, there's still a blank area shown. On the west side.

 Wow! I wonder what's there now? I'd love to be able to go there and find out. What ever it is should stick out like a punch in the mouth, because there's what one would assume to be largely the same period houses either side of it.

 So; Why did they stop building Lawrence Rd at that point? What was that field all about? Someone owned it and didn't want or need to sell it for development? Yet they 'allowed' (?) Gypsys to stop on it? This is chewy! 

 We need someone, fanatical, on the ground in Pompey, Nel. So much might be hidden in the Records Office. We can only scratch about and guess from here 

 But, anyway; There's ye site. (Wonder if it'd be permissible to scan that patch? Show ye the size of the 'field'?)
 

[maidmarianoops]

http://www.rushmoor.gov.uk/media/images/s/h/brickfieldsleaflet.pdf
may be able to get info
sylvia


http://www.hants.gov.uk/rh/gypsy/index.html

[nelwild]

Steve,

thats very curious.I was expecting maybe an unmade road or something similar,but not an area of land between two grand houses.I wonder what thats all about.
Maybe its a derelict area where a building once stood,possibly fire damage or something like that.
Or maybe the houses either side were to do with the brickfields,management maybe,and the land was set aside for travellers who worked there.
If things were the same then as they are now,i cant see it being an official stopping place between two residential dwellings.Ive no doubt the same preducices existed back then.
Your map throws up a lot of questions.Itll be intresting to try and get to the bottom of it.
Ive a strong feeling that brickmaking and brickfields could well be a link between Notting Hill area and some of the West Country families.Ive been searching high and low for that book,still cant find it.Its got some really facsinating descriptions of the area and characters,so il keep looking.

Many thanks to Maidmarionoops for the links,

Nel.

[Steve G]

 I used to have " Romano Lavo Lil " myself, Nel. Decades back though and I didn't honestly retain the topographical sort of stuff from it. Not a small book, is it? Ought to stick out on ye book shelves. My copy was orange, as it happens.

 I've read loads of stuff pertaining to the old, London, sites and so on though, on line. Obviously, all part of those long nights, dragging ones eyes across acres of Google. Be a devil of a job to find it again. But it's out there.

 Anyway, I've been trawling through my somewhat eclectic and totally vast collection of Portsmouth photo's, since last night. People have asked me for shots and I've been looking over thousands of the things. Bummer is, I have Fawcet Rd, which is just above Lawrence. Fawcet actually bends off to the east and what carries on south is then called Lawrence. I came That close 

 I'd say these shots are of roughly the right period. And they show Fawcet as quite a vibrant shopping sort of road. Even more mental then to think that, a couple of hundred yards down the way, there's a, seemingly well enough established, camp site!

 But, regards ye view of peoples views of Gypsys back then? Dunno. I think we have to factor in that Gypsys were probably far more " Gypsys " back then. And they'd have been 99.9% 'Romani's'.  Thus I wonder how the general populace would've viewed them?

 My point is; There would, surely, have been less of this rubbish about  " Proper Gypsys ". People today tend to differentiate between some semi mythical, dark skinned, eyed and haired people ~ flashing white teeth. Gold ear rings. Violins and god knows what else? Where does it stop? And, of course, they All lived in vardo's.

 Now, anyone in a trailer is easily pointed out as not being a " Proper Gypsy " and so can be hated with impunity.

 Anyway, I'm 'digressing'.  Give me twenty minutes or so. I'll show ye that field on the map. Can't hurt to show a square inch of an entire district? I'm sure the man himself won't mind 

[Steve G]

  Here we go. I'm attaching this picture direct from my computer. Never done this before. Hope it works?

 Anyway, what I'm hoping to show ye here is that part of Lawrence Rd with the 'field' on the left ' west side. I hope too that we can see the stunning detail of these (Alan Godfrey, MBE) maps ~ as in, each property is clearly demarked. So, ye can see it really was a residential road. And, from personal memory, I can assure ye it was no slum area either!

 What was that 'field' then? Bit of waste ground? Certainly not a Bomb Site. Not in those days. Perhaps it was itself a Brick Field? I really don't know.

 But, I wonder if I might know a man who could ..... 

[Steve G]

On the 1911 John Mobey,hawker/dealer born 1844 Notting Hill and wife Amelia(nee Huxley) born Kent, is stopping on land in Marlybone St,Southsea,Portsmouth with Michael Stanley born 1864 Brighton,wife Ada born 1869 Chatham,Kent and 7 children.

 Nel; That would have been Marylebone Street. And it was bang up on the Northern edge of what is now, at best, called Southsea. Actually within about a hundred yards or so of the Town Station. (To the north).

 Again, this place would have been around about a couple of hundred yards or so West of where I'd been thinking anywhere else on the south side of the old canal should've been. I'm getting a feel for Ground Zero now! 

 We're really talking what became " Somerstown ".

Just dropping these snippets in, as I dig them up. Be a swine to loose them, if I should drop dead without telling anyone what I'm finding out here! 

[nelwild]

Hello Steve,
Back again,been busy earning and making the most of the fine weather.

The map does seem to show a very built up residential area,with the open space completley surrounded by houses,apart from the entrance.This does seem unusual.
Im afraid i havent got much yet,i still cant find that book,really frustrating,ive noticed it knocking around for months,now when i need it its vanished.Mines a little paperback copy,brown cover with a very traditional Spanish looking Gypsy Lady on it.I picked it up at a boot fair for 20p.Bargain.Im going to have another look as its full of names and descriptions,

Nel

[Steve G]

Fine weather?!  You having a laugh with me or what, Nel? It's gone from frozen to raining, here.

 Anyway, never mind that. Here they are! The Marylebone Street Site!

And, yeppers, again it is an 'unusual' spot. Patch of land in mid metropolis. But then, I lived round there at one time. There was a spot of waste land, probably less than 50 yards by 25. Still regularly used by Gypsys. So, it's fair to allow that these places will be much the same. Little spots of level ground which weren't being used for anything else just then. On they'd come.

 In fact, this spot is about 100 yards or so from the Guildhall! But, it's also behind the town station, see? Tucked away, just behind the scenes. And that area never was, nor likely will be, the most salubrious part of town. Handy for the places they'd all be able to find a bit of work though 

 You feed me the locations. I'll pin them down. Great fun, finding out the little hidey holes they went to, all those years ago. So much more fun than just names on censuses. (Censii?  )

 One more thought; James Ware, living in a house next to this spot? Wonder if he had anything to do with that plot of land? There's still a family of Ware's now living on a farm, just north of Portsmouth. I was thinking of them only today, in fact! Never really learned a great deal about them. But they were known to 'the right sort of people', in my youth. I wonder?

 Anyway, I'll keep picking at all this, as time allows. Unfortunately, my eyeballs are so shot now I can barely manage to read these damn maps  Making it hard for me. I'm enjoying the more ground based detective work though. Maybe able to put some more flesh on these peoples backgrounds.

 Here's where they were stopping: