Jessie Crown and Philip Cohen Glasgow

[JustinL]

Hello Geoff,

What records do you have that indicate the countries of origin of these two families?

Justin

[igeoff]

I have my mother's Australian birth certificate and the Naturalisation file from the Australian National Archives.

The Archives file, which unfortunately is a meagre 4 pages, has the 1916 Alien Registration forms for both Jessie and Philip.

Jessie comes fro Rakisky, in Russia [Russian Baltic States -- the Pale of Settlement], which is Rokiskis in modern Lithuania and Philip from Retabo (Retavo), which ispresent day Rietavas

[JustinL]

Hello Geoff,

I had just searched NAA and found that record too.

A huge number of ther Jewish vital records for both Rietavas and Rosiskis have survived and are online. The tricky thing is working out what the original surnames would have been.

Bloch is easy. Transcribed from Russian as Blokh, בלוך in Yiddish, the name means 'Romance speaker, i.e. Romanian.

Cohen is difficult. Known forms in Rietavas were Kaplan, Kagan, Kagane, Kats, Katz and Kac

Crown could have been Krojn/Kroin or perhaps Kran or something completely different. All are known Jewish names derived from the Yiddish word for 'crown'.

I shall keep looking to see what I find.

Do you know anything more about Phillip's parents, e.g. years of birth and death?

Justin

[igeoff]

That's exactly the kind of thing I want, Justin! Thanks!

Jesse was born on 11 Jan 1890 in Rakisky and died in Sydney, Australia on 25 August 1952.

Philip was born on 1 Jan 1884 [the date on his Alien Registration Form is wrong, information from his late son as well as the age on his marriage record support 1884]. He died in Sydney, Australia on 12 August 1933. My late mother [a Cohen] always said he was 49 when he died, which also supports 1884 as birth year. I have not seen a birth certificate and have no idea where the exact day came from -- I do not trust it.

Family oral tradition, by the way, has them born in Dvinsk (Daugavpils), Kovno (which actually is the province in which Rakisky sat), Memel (present day Klaipeda), Latvia and so on. I think I trust the Registration forms...

I'll look forward to seeing what you come up with Justin -- I did have a quick look at JewishGen and qualied at the enormous range of possibilities I found.

Geoff
BTW I paid to have the NAA record scanned and put up -- that's how the Archive funds its scanning program.

[JustinL]

Geoff,

Not much yet.

Both Phillip and Jessie were buried in the Rookwood cemetery. Philiip's gravestone bears his Hebrew name = Falk ben Yistchak ha-Kohen. That will prove very useful in tracking him down. Jessie's gravestone does not show her Hebrew name.

Etel and Etele Blokh both appear amongst the Rokiskis records. Etel/Etele being Yiddish nicknames for the Hebrew name Ester.

What makes you think that Phillip did not know his birthday when he filled in and signed the naturalisation application? Surely, information from his chidren must be regarded as a secondary source.

I have enlisted some more help, will report back as things develop.

Justin

[igeoff]

Justin: Thanks very much! That's pretty good for a start. I must admit that I have been using Amsterdam Cemetery (Muiderberg) records to research my father's side and had not yet thought of trying Rookwood (which is "only" 1000 km away, but presumably web accessible; Amsterdam is more like 12000) for Philip and Jessie.

There are three quite old surviving children of Philip (two aunts and an uncle) in Sydney and I will ask my cousins to talk to them if possible. This could take a while, but may yield extra information.

The birth date I trust came from my (now deceased) uncle, Bernard Solomon Cohen, who had an interest in these matters; he was born in Glasgow.

Why do I trust him more than Philip himself?

1. Philip's marriage record [Statutory Marriages 644/15 0043], which is for 11 January 1910 gives his age as 26. This would indicate a birth date on or after 11 January 1883 and before 11 Jan 1884.

2. Other information on Philip's 1916 Alien Registration Form (it is in his Naturalization file, but is not his certificate -- that WOULD be nice to have; but no one seems to have it) looks to be incorrect. He says on the Registration form that he came to Australia (the Commonwealth, but in those days that was the same thing) "about 1910". In fact Bernard was born in Glasgow on14 January 1912 to Jessie. This makes Jessie's statement that she arrived in Australia in 1911 wrong.
Also, assuming Philip was his son's father (which we have no reason to disbelieve), conception happened around April 1911. In Glasgow, unless these poor Jewish immigrants made  very frequent intercontinental voyages! It's always possible that Bernard was the result of one last night of bliss before Philip sailed (assuming he came here before Jessie, which was common), but even that makes his arrival date wrong by a year or more.

The upshot of this is that I suspect Jessie and Philip did not take too much meticulous care in filling out their Alien Registration forms in 1916 --  but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

BTW Jessie's age at marriage is given as 19. This makes her birth year 1890/1891.

Cheers and thanks again!
Geoff

[igeoff]

Justin: Philip's birthday is given as 1 January 1884 in his burial record at Rookwood as well.

[igeoff]

But Jessie's is given as 10 Jan 1891 at Rookwood and her birthplace as Daugavpils (Dvinsk).

Herman's is given as Minsk. [at Rookwod]

I'm inclined to believe what they themselves wrote in 1916 -- the places they name are to small to just come arbitrarily to mind...

[JustinL]

Geoff,

Just a quick note before I head off to the airport.

The gravestone of Elizabeth Isaacs (nee Italiaander) reveals that her Hebrew name was Liba bat Shimon.

I think I have found a matching Simon Italiaander in various Amsterdam records. I shall give you full details when I have a bit more time.

Cheers, Justin