Author Topic: Royal Fusiliers WW1  (Read 14679 times)

Offline googiew

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Royal Fusiliers WW1
« on: Wednesday 10 February 10 11:03 GMT (UK) »
I have the WW1 service record and medal card for my grandfather. 
Isaac Reginald TEE,

Royal Fusuliers, 
 
Regimental No GS78211, 
 
(YS) Bn TR (Royal fusiliers),
 
his address at joining up was 4 Church st, Stanground, Peterbourough.

My question is did he see active service if so where, and what was his date of discharge.

Many thanks

Googiew
Withers Huntingdonshire
Tee Northamptonshire
Sharp(e) Lincs

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Offline Stebie9173

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Re: Royal Fusiliers WW1
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 10 February 10 12:24 GMT (UK) »
He did serve overseas. He first trained with the 55th (Young Soldiers) Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers in England at Brocton from 16-1-1918 to 3-5-1918 and later the 53rd (Graduated) Battalion (the same battalion with a different name) of the Royal Fusiliers from 3-5-1918 to 9-6-1918. He embarked overseas via Folkestone & Boulogne on 9-6-1918 originally destined for the 13th battalion of the Royal Fusiliers. In France he spent a while at "J" Infantry Base Depot at Etaples from where he was diverted to the 9th Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers on 11-6-1918.  He joined the 9th Royal Fusiliers (in 12th Division) on 15-6-1918. He served with the 9th Royal Fusiliers in France until wounded in the left hand on 22-8-1918. If I remember correctly 12th Division was attacking east from Albert around that point, I think passing south of Fricourt as the Germans retreated following the British breakthrough on the Somme on 8th August 1918. He was evacuated to hospital in England on 27-8-1918. He was treated at Beckett St. Hospital in Leeds, North Allerton Convalescent Hospital and also a hospital at Brighton. Released from hospital on 12-10-1918 he was granted home furlough/leave until 18-10-1918. He was then posted to the Eastern Command Depot - I believe at Ampthill (where men received physiotherapy for recovery) on 18-10-1918. He was posted to class Z Reserve (and effectively discharged from the army) on 7-2-1919.  He would have been demobilised and gone home about a month earlier, at which point he seems to have been in Ireland.


He came from the same village as my relatives incidentally.


EDIT:

A slight correction - the 12th Division were a bit further west on 22-8-1918 - they were pushing forward across the Albert-Meaulte-Bray Road just south of Meaulte. The 9th Royal Fusiliers in fact gained 2,500 yards that day (the extent of their advance being the Meaulte-Bray road) - an almost unprecedented advance for the war.... The battalion advance ceased only when another British battalion took over the advance.




Steve.
Researching : Beeby (Titchmarsh / Peterborough), Brooksbank (Peterborough), Northamptonshire Regiment 1914-1918

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Offline Stebie9173

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Re: Royal Fusiliers WW1
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 11 February 10 09:51 GMT (UK) »
The following short article appeared in the Peterborough Advertiser of 7-9-1918, along with a picture. The microfilm makes the picture very dark - it is probably a lot better on the original, which Peterborough Library hold copies of.



Steve.


P.S. Do you have any "Leadings" in your family tree by the way?
Researching : Beeby (Titchmarsh / Peterborough), Brooksbank (Peterborough), Northamptonshire Regiment 1914-1918

Offline googiew

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Re: Royal Fusiliers WW1
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 11 February 10 11:36 GMT (UK) »
Thank You Steve for the most informative reply.

Sorry I dont have any Leadings in my trees, but as a matter of interest I was at school with a Broadbent, and Beeby.

Again many thanks

Derek Withers
Withers Huntingdonshire
Tee Northamptonshire
Sharp(e) Lincs

Offline Stebie9173

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Re: Royal Fusiliers WW1
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 11 February 10 11:53 GMT (UK) »
My Beebys come from Stanground, Farcet and New England in Peterborough, and plenty of us, so may have been a relative!


I know someone called Tee, so I thought you might have been related.


Steve.
Researching : Beeby (Titchmarsh / Peterborough), Brooksbank (Peterborough), Northamptonshire Regiment 1914-1918

Offline googiew

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Re: Royal Fusiliers WW1
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 11 February 10 14:07 GMT (UK) »
Small world eh.

Was at school with Beryl Beeby also Brian Beeby at the then Fletton Secondary Modern which then became Stangound Comprehensive.

Lots of TEEs in Farcet and Yaxley area, most originated from Maidwell, Northamptonshire.

Derek
Withers Huntingdonshire
Tee Northamptonshire
Sharp(e) Lincs

Offline googiew

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Re: Royal Fusiliers WW1
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 11 February 10 14:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi again Steve I have another request for info for you.

My other grandfather, ARTHUR SHARP (From Medal Card)      Regimental No 35659 Esseex Regiment
                                                                                         
                                                                 Regimental No 40398 Northamptonshire Regiment

                                                                 Regimental No 78315  61 Coy RDC

From Certifcate of Discharge

Joined up 3 June 1916 in Northampton
Served in the Labour Corp of the Northaptonshire Reg


Any infor would be most grateful

Derek
Withers Huntingdonshire
Tee Northamptonshire
Sharp(e) Lincs

Offline Stebie9173

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Re: Royal Fusiliers WW1
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 14 February 10 11:22 GMT (UK) »
Derek,

The Northamptons are my main interest, so hopefully I can help! Apologies for the delay, as this has taken a bit of work...

Although there isn't a service record for Arthur, his combination of numbers means that we can put together a reasonable timeline for him. I'll show the chain of events first and then explain how I got there...

Section 1

Posted to 3rd Bn., Essex Regiment, No. 35659, circa mid February 1917.
Embarked to France with a Draft of the Essex Regiment on 20 May 1917.
Awarded British War Medal and Victory Medal.
Arrived at an Infantry Base Depot in France
Posted to 13th Bn., Essex Regiment, 21 May 1917, but did not physically join them.
Transferred to the 2nd Bn., Northamptonshire Regiment, No. 40398, 11 June 1917.
Joined 2nd Battalion Northamptonshire Regiment on 13 June 1917.

Section 2

Reported as Wounded as a Private per the Official Casualty Lists of 29-8-1917 Part IV (Peterborough), possibly on 31 July 1917.
Wounded with 2nd Bn. Northamptonshire Regiment at Ypres on 31-7-1917 or thereabouts.
Evacuated back to the UK for hospital treatment.

Section 3

Released from hospital and posted to 3rd Reserve Battalion of the Northamptonshire Regiment.
Transferred to 600 Home Service Employment Coy., Labour Corps, possibly circa March 1918 - based at Chatham. (Edit: Date of transfer probably in May 1918}
Transferred to 61st Protection Company, Royal Defence Corps, 5 July 1918.
Served with 61st RDC until the end of the war.



We can fit together a reasonable series of events because of his changes of numbers as he moves from unit to unit through the war, and by looking at the surviving service records of men with similar numbers to Arthur, and exercising some judgement as to whether that movement applies to Arthur as well.

Firstly, the movements into the Northamptonshire Regiment (section 1, above) are shared by 24 men numbered 40379 Walter Brazier to 40402 Percy Threadgill. These men are grouped by surname in alphabetical order, a sign that they were organised into a group that transferred at the same time. Although, I don't have access to the Medal Rolls of the RDC for Arthur, the Northamptonshire Regiment medal rolls for the twenty-one men who stayed with the Northamptons consistently show the men transferring from the 13th Battalion of the Essex Regiment to the 2nd Battalion of the Northamptonshire Regiment.

I would recommend that you look at the Medal Roll for Arthur Sharp if you haven't done so already, which would hopefully confirm the combination of 13th Eseex and 2nd Northamptons. I am 95% certain that he served in France with the 2nd Battalion of the Northamptons.

Four of these men have surviving service records and all show consistent dates of transfer, one of whom also has a very similar Essex Regiment number so I shall use him as the example:

Henry Thomas Thurlow - Attested under the Derby Scheme, age 18 years, 11 months, 10-12-1915. Mobilised, 22-2-1917. Posted to 3rd Bn., Essex Regiment, No. 35674, 22-2-1917. France, 20-5-1917. BWM/VM. Posted to 13th Bn., Essex Regiment. Transferred to the 2nd Bn., Northamptonshire Regiment, No. 40400, 11-6-1917. Joined 2nd Bn., 13-6-1917.

The other three records (40379 Walter Brazier, 40380 Victor Alexander John Brundle, and 40397 Percy William Saines) bear out the same dates, so I would be very confident indeed in adopting these for Arthur Sharp as well.


(edited to modify date of transfer to the Labour Corps)
Researching : Beeby (Titchmarsh / Peterborough), Brooksbank (Peterborough), Northamptonshire Regiment 1914-1918

Offline Stebie9173

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Re: Royal Fusiliers WW1
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 14 February 10 11:25 GMT (UK) »
Section 2 above covers Arthur's time in France - an eventful couple of months. His wounding is recorded in the official casualty list of 29th August 1917, which were usually published about a month after the actual date of wounding. The list, where I have been able to match the list to service records, records those men wounded during the opening stages of the Third Battle of Ypres on the 31st July 1917, or in the day or so following the opening of the battle.

Considering the subsequent timeline of events it is likely that this wound was serious enough to cause Arthur's evacuation back to England for hospitalisation.


This brings us to the final section - his transfer to the Labour Corps and on to the Royal Defence Corps. Again there is a recognisable grouping of men transferring from the Northamptons on to the 61st Protection Company of the Royal Defence Corps. Again there is the grouping by surname:


William Chapman, Northamptonshire Regiment 16072, Labour Corps 589507, Royal Defence Corps 78302 (Service Record exists)
Jesse T Cadd, Northamptonshire Regiment 12848, Royal Defence Corps 78303
Walter F Edmonds, Northamptonshire Regiment 28026, Royal Defence Corps 78304
Septimus Ficken, Northamptonshire Regiment 43077, Royal Defence Corps 78306 (Previously 6th Bedfords 26959) (Service Record exists)
Robert W Howards, Northamptonshire Regiment 40564, Royal Defence Corps 78308 (Previously Suffolks 45209)
Alfred G Loveday, Northamptonshire Regiment 8492, Royal Defence Corps 78310   
Albert E Merrick, Northamptonshire Regiment 14862, Royal Defence Corps 78312   (Service Record exists)
Frank Mole, Northamptonshire Regiment 14861, Labour Corps 541789, Royal Defence Corps 78313 (Service Record exists)
William J Rainbow, Northamptonshire Regiment 7602, Labour Corps 318542, Royal Defence Corps 78314   
Arthur Sharp, Northamptonshire Regiment 40398, Royal Defence Corps 78315 (Previously Essex 35659)
Gilbert Thompson, Northamptonshire Regiment 22639,, Royal Defence Corps 78320 (Service Record exists)
Alfred J Underwood, Northamptonshire Regiment 20001, Royal Defence Corps 78321   
Ralph White, Northamptonshire Regiment 8850, Labour Corps 318635, Royal Defence Corps 78323   
Henry Wilson, Northamptonshire Regiment 27145, Royal Defence Corps 78324   


Again, there are enough service records surviving of these men to work out that they all followed a similar route through from the 3rd Northamptons to the 61st Protection Company of the Royal Defence Corps.

The best example of the above movements is Frank Mole of Kettering, formerly number 14861 of the 6th and 1st Northamptons and later number 78313 of the Royal Defence Corps:

Wounded, hand (slight), 26-9-1916. Depot, 13-11-1916. Hospital discharge furlough, 6-1-1917 to 15-1-1917. 3rd Bn., 16-1-1917. 17 I.B.D., 3-3-1917. 1st Bn., 3-3-1917. Returned from France, 23-4-1917. Depot, 23-4-1917. Hospital discharge furlough, 9-6-1917 to 18-6-1917. Thetford Command Depot, 18-6-1917. 3rd Bn., 12-11-1917. 600 Home Service Employment Coy., Labour Corps, No. 541789, 19-3-1918. To 61st Protection Company, Royal Defence Corps, 5-7-1918. At Lewes, 8-7-1918.

As you can see Frank Mole was wounded, twice actually, and after his second wound was medically downgraded and transferred to the 600 Home Service Employment Coy., Labour Corps, No. 541789, on 19 March 1918, being subsequently transferred to the 61st Protection Company, Royal Defence Corps a few of months later on 5 July 1918. I would suggest that the latter date of transfer would be exactly the same day that Arthur Sharp did the same transfer, and that the earlier March date would also be not far from when Arthur Sharp joined the 600th Company of the Labour Corps. If we had a Labour Corps number we could probably narrow it down a bit better.


The main question I would like to answer is actually what Arthur Sharp did between enlisting on 3 June 1916 and joining the Essex Regiment in February 1917. He may have served with another Regiment that is not shown on the certificates, or alternatively he may have been granted exemption from call up due to his job. Do you know what Arthur did prior to joining the Army?


Do you have a wartime address for him as well?


Anyway, I hope this makes some sense!

Steve.


P.S. I don't have Beryl or Brian in my family tree at the moment, but they probably figure somewhere!
Researching : Beeby (Titchmarsh / Peterborough), Brooksbank (Peterborough), Northamptonshire Regiment 1914-1918