My Brick Wall

[gabba]

I`m looking for help to find my Rose Ann Gabriel
Here`s what I have on her

Rose Ann Gabriel born approx 1848 Ireland father Samuel Gabriel  mother Rose Ann

1851 census found aged 3 years
1861 census found aged 14 years
1865 Marriage cert to Millington James Walthew
1871 census Rose Ann Walthew Widower child Ann E Walthew
After this period I`m unable to find Rose, then we found ref to her in a letter saying we had claim to land in Ireland & Rose Ann MORAN daughter of a Samuel Gabriel living at 70 Olivia St Bootle Liverpool
1881 census Rose Ann Moran & James Moran b1840 (Coal Heaver)
1891 census has a Rose Ann Moran at 78 Olive St married to James Moran born 1840 Ireland (Coal Heaver)
there must be a link but why can`t I find a marriage cert or them via 1901/1911 census records
Can you help???

Thanks in advance

Gabba

[Oreo]

A Rosanna Walthew married James Holligan in 1894 in West Derby.  Tried checking it out on 1901 census.  There is a James Holligan with a wife Rose A. of the correct age in West Derby.  Having some problems with the website, so can't see the original image at the moment.  The grown up children could be from James's first marriage.

Perhaps she wasn't formally married to James Moran, hence the use of her surname from first marriage.

Also, have you checked Irish censuses?

[mosiefish]

Nice find Oreo 

The "childrens" names and ages in the 1901 cenus all match with the ones called Moran in the 1891 census too.

Mo
P.S. glad it is not just me struggling with the website tonight.

[gabba]

Rose Ann Walthew nee Gabriel first husband dies in 1869 approx but  by 1881 & 1891 census is recorded as M married but no record can be found for her to a James Moran !!!!
By 1894 after James Moran dies Rose marries again to a James Holligan but she give name as Walthew
Would people of that time lied to enumerator ?

Gabba

[mosiefish]

Would people of that time lied to enumerator ?

Yes, they frequently altered the truth to suit their circumstances. 

Strange that there doesn`t seem to be a death recorded for her husband.  What was his occupation on the marriage certificate? 

Regards,
Mo

[EdwardW]

Just a thought. The Walthew family were often Catholics. It may be you need to look in RC records
Edward W

[garstonite]

Just a thought. The Walthew family were often Catholics. It may be you need to look in RC records
Edward W

Walthew family here in Garston 1891 census

James Frederick aged 38  b Lancashire Cotton Merchant ( born Prescot about 6 miles from Garston )
Josephine aged 34 b America British Subject
Triphena M aged 5 b Cheshire
Frederick E aged 4 Canada
Dorothy R  aged 3 America
...........................................................................

Name     Millington James Walthew   
 Gender     Male   
 Christening Date     24 May 1840   
 Christening Place     St. Mary's, Walton-on-the-Hill, Lancashire, England   
 Birth Date     10 Apr 1840   
 Father's Name    Millington Walthew     
 Mother's Name    Ann Walthew   

[garstonite]

Can I ask why you think Rose Ann Gabriel was born in Ireland ?
Quote. -  Rose Ann Gabriel born approx 1848 Ireland father Samuel Gabriel  mother Rose Ann

...this looks like a possible for her parents marriage in Liverpool in 1835

Marriage: 7 Dec 1835 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
 Samuel Gabriel - Cordwainer, Liverpool
 Rosana Baylin - Widow,

do you think these are Rose Ann Gabriel parents ??