Family boycott of civil registration?

[ormus]

After months of fruitless searching, I have concluded that my ancestors family did not register many of their BMD events. For example, in the 1891 census I have an ancestor James Riley, Hawker, aged 39, of Wood Street Salford. With him are wife Mary, 39, Thomas, 9, James C., 6, and Cornelius, 2. All born Manchester except little Cornelius born Salford. I cannot find any obvious birth records for the children.
In the 1881 census James the Hawker was living in King Street, Salford, with wife Mary. No children. No trace of any marriage.
1871 census James the Hawker aged 15  is with his mother Jane Reiley (Widow, lodging house keeper) 16 King Street Salford with her other children Horatio Reily, 9, John, 5, Mary A., 3,  all born Manchester, and Jane's mother Hannah Rayton, 72, born Norwich (I believe this is Hannah Brereton born Northwich). I cannot find a birth record for Horatio Riley, or indeed any births for any of her children, although I have a marriage certificate for Jane Brereton who married Cornelius Riley in 1844 I cannot find a death of Cornelius. I also cannot find a death of a Hannah that is remotely like Brereton, Rayton, etc. I understand how you could avoid marrying and just saying you are, and even avoiding registering births, but surely you would register deaths?!
To confirm these Rileys are my ancestors I really need to have their BMD records. Has anyone else had similar frustrations? Am I just missing the obvious? Any help would be much appreciated from here in the USA.
Geoff

[BridgetM]

I have the same problem with my Flynns.  I don't think my maternal gg grandfather's birth was registered, and neither were either of his marriages.  I do have his death cert, as well as his children's birth certs--but their mother was the informant, not him.  (His oldest son is the informant on his own mother's death cert; where my gg grandfather was while his wife was dying in childbirth, I don't know!)

My gg grandfather was a hawker, as were his parents.  (His parents were born in Ireland, but all their children except the oldest were born in Liverpool--though I'm still not sure if any of their births were registered.  Perhaps they didn't know about civil registration?)

I can find them on all the censuses, from 1841 to 1901.

[Gaille]

Ok I spent last night cursing my gt-grandad for not registering a single one of his Childrens births!

Checked out all of them on the BMD, tried the parish registers for the areas they were in - I knew where they were born from the Cencus info for each of them, plus a rough year of birth so I was pretty confident they were there ................. nothing not a single solitary one of them - and he had a LOT of children over a 20 year period!

I even had the chatters in the chatroom looking and nothing, found them on the cencus's but then nothing on BMD or parish regs ...............

....................... and then I made a spelling mistake & accidentaly left the 'S's off the end of one of one of the surnames for one of them............. and all my little 'Bates' Children popped up - under the name of 'Bate' !!!

Have you tried searching for one of the unusual first names with no surname attached? sometimes that works.

Gaille

[ormus]

Gosh you must be up late!

I have tried first name searches (Cornelius and Horatio were not exactly common names) and Riley does have several variants. No luck. I have tried everything and I am at my metaphorical wits end.

If this is the Jane Riley I suspect she is, her father, a sawyer named John Brereton (b. 1796) did not seem to have many of his children baptised. It could be a family trait "my dad didn't hold with these registrations, so why should I?" way of anti-establishment thinking.

The nightmare scenario for my genealogy research is that they were actually registered under a different first name. But that many of them? Don't know.
Thanks for the input,
Geoff

[millymcb]

Hi Geoff,

I expect they are there somewhere


Have you looked at this one for baby Cornelius Riley aged 2 in 1891?   Born Salford in Census. 
FROM GRO
Births Sep 1890 
Riley    Cornelius        Blackburn    8e   411

Or LancsBMD
1890
RILEY   Cornelius
Blackburn Southern   Blackburn        REF: BS/16/86

(Blackburn was part of the Salford Diocese)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13399a.htm


Milly

[ormus]

I saw and sort of considered the Blackburn entry. It is a very remote possibility, as the rest of the family were from the Manchester/Salford vicinity. I suppose I could look on the '91 census and check for any Cornelius Riley born in Blackburn.
Hmmm. Just done that. Only one Cornelius Riley born in Lancashire; mine in Salford. No deaths of a young Cornelius Riley between 1888 and 1891. Assuming the birth was registered, then that is the one that moves to the top of my favorite list.
Next is Horatio Riley born 1862. I checked the Horatio Lilley born in Manchester at that time but no dice, as they say round here.

[Rena]

Nine year old Horatio could have been born in 1861.  Unfortunately there's no 9yr old Horatio born in Manchester after the 1861 census with a name remotely like Riley/Reilly and I doubt the Horatio Linney born Sept 1861 Salford belongs to you.   

How about this young man with no name? :

Births Jun 1862
RILEY    Male   registered: Manchester    8d/137

[millymcb]

Drat - I think this may be the Blackburn Cornelius


1891 CENSUS RG12/3404/27/1
32, Taylor Street, Blackburn   

RILEY, John   Head       AGE   21           1870    Weaver Cotton
RILEY, Rachel   Wife               AGE   21           1870    Weaver Cotton
RILEY, Cornelious   Son      AGE   0 (10M)   1891   
 

Milly
     

[millymcb]

How about this for a possible death?


Deaths Sep 1916 
Riley    Cornelius    27    Chorlton    8c   762


(ie born about 1889)


As there are two Cornelius Riley born about 1889-1890 it could be either of them of course.


Have you tried army service records etc for any of your chaps?  There may be some clues to be found


Milly