Marriage and Death mystery Llanelly/i

[dannyvel]

Hi guys i am Danny from North Wales i am desperate for information on my G-Grandmother. There is a few mysterys surrounding her as far as i know, maybe i just don't know.

My G Grandmother is Esther Emma Chidley, however my G Grandfather is Frederick Charles Vel (1909-1940). She was in London in 1940 as my grandad Edward Vel (1940-1987) and his sister XXX (1938-) was registered Hammersmith. I know from other family that my Grandad moved to Swansea at a very young age, possibly 1940's. He had a broad Swansea accent.

There is another sister XXX b.1953.

There seems to be no marriage between Esther and Frederick Vel but on the marriage records for 1957 i found an Esther E Vel, which is undoubtedly the same person, marrying a Mr George A Davies in Llanelly, Carmarthenshire.

I found an Esther Emma Davies on the death records July 1985, born 1917.

I would love for somebody to help me piece some of this puzzle together and i am sorry if it all came out a bit mumbo jumbo.

Danny 

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[osprey]

there is no birth reg around 1917 for Esther Emma Chidley that I can see at the mo. There is, however, this likely one

Emma E Chidley march qtr 1916 Camberwell vol 1d pg 1555 mmn Miller

The in 1938, possible marriage reg

Emma E Chidley sept qtr 1938 Southwark vol 11d pg 167 to Frederick Langdon

Could Frederick have used an alternate surname at the time of the marriage?

 

[dannyvel]

I expect it's a possibility but if Esther was going by the name of Vel then that casts more doubt over your theory. I welcome every possibility but the only one i can really come up with is they never actually did the deed. Maybe there was some reason why that we will never know but one thing i do know is i would like to find out if anybody knows anything about. Seems to me that after Frederick died she quit London for Wales very soon. My Grandad always considered himself Welsh and yet was registered Hammersmith. I never knew him but i suspect he didn't even know he and his family was English as a lot of family was surprised when i told them he was London born.
Most responses was "no he's from Swansea" or "he's as welsh as you could get".  I enjoy the investigating but i am certain just one thing will explain everything. Maybe Esther quit London because of the war?
As there is only two daughters i can't find anything about them because their names would have changed if they married etc.
I have almost come to the conclusion that if some people don't want to be found they won't be.

 

[osprey]

I think you've misunderstood what I meant. Frederick Vel and Frederick Langstone may be one and the same person.

[dannyvel]

Hi this has been a long time but i have had a few problems but i'm now going to start again.

I understand what you said but if Frederick Langstone was the same person why would Esther have used the name Vel on her second marriage?

Confusion everywhere for me i'm sorry. I have even been able to get hold of a photograph of her with what would have been her sister-in-law. That was taken around mid to late 1930's so it is pretty clear how she would have known my G Grandfather as her friend married his brother.

[osprey]

do you have any certificates for him? Birth or marriage to compare details?

[dannyvel]

i don't have anything but what you said seems likely to be her. It's just such a mystery as she had a daughter in ^(*) who was born with the name ^(*). My G Grandad died in 1940 so this daughter, who is my great aunt, was obviously born out of wed-lock.

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[osprey]

as the child was registered as Vel, there was probably no father's name entered on the cert. 

http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm

Have you checked the 1911 census for Frederick to find out his parents' names? I think his father may have died when he was quite young & his mother remarried. He may have lived with a family called Langstone or used that name for some reason & so married in that name. Without getting certs, you can't be sure. But it does seem to be too much of a coincidence for it not to be the same man.

 

[Crunwere]

Very interesting quest.

Just a thought or two:

Have you had the 1950s marriage cert to see how Esther showed herself (widow or single?).

Also you may be able to trace your great aunts forward through a marriage - have you tried o Ancestry?  You might be lucky with that surname.

I'd do some digging on Val and Langdon - just to see what turned up.  Was he a Val who called himself a Landon for a while - or was he a Langdon who changed his name to Val?  Or perhaps its not connected at all.  My grt gran 'adopted' by a family of Roberts, but most often she went by the name of Raymond, which was her blood mother - so things can sometimes chop and change.

Have you tried looking up the Swansea/Llanelli vooting lists for the 40s to see where Esther was?  Also the birth cert f the 1950s grt aunt might be interesting, and migt hold some clue or address.

I know of a couple who purported to be married but only actually had the quiet registry ceremony in secret after about 20yrs - try finding that in the future??

Jus a thought - you could try a letter in the Llanelli Star to see if anyone knows what happened to the grt aunt born in 1953 - perhaps your grt gran had re-married another time too.

How did Frederick die - was itthe War - he was quite young.